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Old Dec 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
It's a matter of perspective and you two don't see it.
Make that three
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Old Dec 3rd, 2012, 11:52 pm   #12 (permalink)
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numb=thrills

Mark,
I had a early 70's H1 750 Kawasaki in "77-78". That motorcycle was the definition of "Edge Of Stability". Some of us idiots even bought expansion chambers and did other mods to make them more dangerous.
Talk about a numb ride, if you got on a gravel road, good chance your going down! Talk about no feel.
Some guys at the Tech school I was going had a H1 club, and some extremely hot H1's. Some guys lived!
Cycle mag. awarded the bike the most dangerous bike of the decade of the 70's.
Thought I'd just share this with you for fun!!!!!!
Happy Ridin,
Dave
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 4:18 am   #13 (permalink)
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We will only know when some real world riders (us) try it and report back. The ultimate point where you will "know", is when you try it yourself!

Until that point, it's all speculation and opinion.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 4:25 am   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by eye.surgeon View Post
Looks like the same unit to me.
Yeah they missed the best upgrade they could do for the display. I wish they had the full color HD display like the panigale for the Multistrada 2013


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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 5:03 am   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye.surgeon View Post
Just got my January Rider magazine and read the 2013 multistrada review. Many positive things to say about the changes to the bike but the last paragraph caught my attention..."the new setup felt somewhat numb relative to it's Ohlins-equipped predecessor. " I'm wondering if Ducati made the suspension change because of all the ohlins warranty issues on the early bikes, because of Audi's relationship with Sachs, or if skyhook is actually a better suspension.

Regardless, I'm not sad I have the gold forks on mine.
May as well have the whole quote, for context:

'Regardless of mode, the S Touring was well behaved, with minimal chassis pitch and good damping. What was hard to pinpoint, however, was the semi-active component of suspension action. According to David James, Ducati’s international press manager, that’s the point: “DSS is supposed to be seamless, like a well-designed traction control system.” Maybe so, but the new setup felt somewhat numb relative to its Öhlins-equipped predecessor. We’ll reserve final judgment until we can do a more thorough road test.'

(I am assuming the article in question is the press launch report from Greg Drevenstedt, online here since late October.)

He says it felt "somewhat numb". Hmm, how numb? Well, somewhat.

The new system uses an electronically controlled needle and seat valve, rather than the deflecting shim-stack valves in Ohlins and other conventional shocks. I can't quite see how that could offer the tactility of the Ohlins design. The Ohlins valves are pressure-sensitive, and the response is immediate and directly mechanical. The Skyhook valves are not mechanically sensitive at all, as far as I can understand the system: that is mimicked electronically.

Question is how much that matters, given the other advantages the system may have. We should know more soon.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 5:43 am   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David D View Post
We will only know when some real world riders (us) try it and report back. The ultimate point where you will "know", is when you try it yourself!

Until that point, it's all speculation and opinion.
Well, let's see from Ducati's perspective:

The average owner of a 1200MTS is 45 years old.
For 80% of MTS1200 owners, that was their first Ducati ever.

Now the rest, what we can assume:
Of this 45 year old average owner, how many that make this average rider take the Ohlins suspenders to the point where they are really giving something EXTRA to the rider in terms of performance? And how much time of the riding time they ride at that point?

The Sachs Skyhook gives more all the other times, perhaps not at the edge, where the Ohlins are probably much better, in terms of FEEL (pending a real test here) not necessarily performance. But feel is what we want and perhaps need when we ride on the limit, right? So you lose some, you get some.

But the Sachs Skyhook is giving overall more to this older more settled new customer of Ducatis. Which are now offering a more touring version of the MTS. So, on the average, Ducati may be succeeding for most of their customers, moving forward with technology, maintaining technology leadership.

But my real point is: I wish they offered the Pikes Peak on Ohlins suspenders. But I can't deny that I'm curious about what the Sachs Skyhook brings to the ride in terms of comfort and why not, stability. And overall, this is the direction Ducati is going, for this new customer to the brand, on this particular bike.

Last edited by Lion; Dec 4th, 2012 at 5:48 am.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 6:02 am   #17 (permalink)
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I reckon skyhook is the first generation of a new type of semi-active suspension. I think that BMW have a similar setup on the HP4. That system adjusts dampening every 0.6 pico seconds or some such shit. Active suspensions will be like ABS and DTC. The first few iterations will be a bit dodgy until they get the tech right, then we will all be wondering how we ever got along without it.

Just watch

OZ
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 6:26 am   #18 (permalink)
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I'm 'typical'. 45+++ (age). MTS my first Ducati.

I’m one of the 45(+ a bit!) and MTS ‘first Ducati’ bunch. In the last three years I had and Er6n…(to get back into things after a 5 year break) and a VFR800…then the MTS. Before that…lots of things.
I use the bike every day as a commuter and am out on rides all the time…15500km’s in less than 6 months…so I think I use the bike a lot! I’m a ‘fast tourer’…their ain’t no chicken strips (PR3’s, which I like) but I’m not getting my knee down on every bend, (though I keep scraping my boots!) I’m admit I’m not as sensitive to the ‘springing/damping’ as many…and after getting the front pre-load backed off…and tweaking the damping a bit…I am very happy with the Ohlins….far far far more ‘secure’ than the forks on the VFR. So I’d be loath to change….BUT…as Lion says…as I’m not taking things to the edge…it may well be that the Sky Hook would suit me…and us ’45 +’ people more…we just can’t have a clue till we, and many others, try it.
I just wish these Ducati people hadn’t sold me a bike with crap fueling….a ‘locked’ ECU, and (what seems) a poor altitude/temp (air density) compensation system. You really really can’t ship a bike with a ‘locked’ fuel map and poor altitude/temp compensation (not to mention the ‘factory set’ lean running…and a bloody butterfly valve to choke off the exhaust ) to all four corners (and altitudes) of the globe and expect it work…just not possible. And there is NOTHING your local Ducati dealer can do about it. That’s my gripe. The twin plugs, re-angled injector and ‘air injection’ will hopefully mean the new fuel map will actually be what the engine needs, (rather than what the regulations require)…and is the butterfly exhaust ‘choker’ still there on the 2013?
Not ONE report that I read ref the 2012 bike mentioned any ‘surging/rough running’ issues at the lower rpm….yet you have only to read on this forum to see how many people suffered from that! We won’t mention the rear brake (did that get a mention in the reports?)…the unreliable fuel tank sensor, the instrument panel issues...expanding tanks for our USA mates…(same tank on the 2013?).
So….yep….I love the bike…but can’t say I love the manufacturer !! (That said, the local dealer has changed everything….in some cases several times…with no argument).
I’d love to try the 2013 bike….but having got the current one almost running right…even my dealer says to leave the 2013 machine alone for now.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 7:00 am   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david d View Post
we will only know when some real world riders (us) try it and report back. The ultimate point where you will "know", is when you try it yourself!

Until that point, it's all speculation and opinion.
+1.
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Old Dec 4th, 2012, 7:04 am   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion View Post
Well, let's see from Ducati's perspective:

The average owner of a 1200MTS is 45 years old.
For 80% of MTS1200 owners, that was their first Ducati ever.

Now the rest, what we can assume:
Of this 45 year old average owner, how many that make this average rider take the Ohlins suspenders to the point where they are really giving something EXTRA to the rider in terms of performance? And how much time of the riding time they ride at that point?

The Sachs Skyhook gives more all the other times, perhaps not at the edge, where the Ohlins are probably much better, in terms of FEEL (pending a real test here) not necessarily performance. But feel is what we want and perhaps need when we ride on the limit, right? So you lose some, you get some.

But the Sachs Skyhook is giving overall more to this older more settled new customer of Ducatis. Which are now offering a more touring version of the MTS. So, on the average, Ducati may be succeeding for most of their customers, moving forward with technology, maintaining technology leadership.

But my real point is: I wish they offered the Pikes Peak on Ohlins suspenders. But I can't deny that I'm curious about what the Sachs Skyhook brings to the ride in terms of comfort and why not, stability. And overall, this is the direction Ducati is going, for this new customer to the brand, on this particular bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickpilot View Post
.
I just wish these Ducati people hadn’t sold me a bike with crap fueling….. And there is NOTHING your local Ducati dealer can do about it. That’s my gripe. The twin plugs, re-angled injector and ‘air injection’ will hopefully mean the new fuel map will actually be what the engine needs, (rather than what the regulations require)…and is the butterfly exhaust ‘choker’ still there on the 2013?
Not ONE report that I read ref the 2012 bike mentioned any ‘surging/rough running’ issues at the lower rpm….yet you have only to read on this forum to see how many people suffered from that! We won’t mention the rear brake (did that get a mention in the reports?)…the unreliable fuel tank sensor, the instrument panel issues...expanding tanks for our USA mates…(same tank on the 2013?).
So….yep….I love the bike…but can’t say I love the manufacturer !! .
Concur with both.....well said

Regardless, the new 2013 MTS12s will be a great open road going, upright motorcycle, a refined version of its predecessor. It will offer less tactile feedback in more sport oriented riding but will still function adequately. The motor will offer better fueling, feel smoother, and perhaps more torque. The brakes and windscreen functionality somewhat improved, all else remaining nearly the same. Dependability and durability we'll have to wait on, fit and finish shouldn't be too different.

Personally speaking, I think it's a shame that Ohlins suspensions are slowly being phased out of their product line. Other than that, the new MTS12s will do just fine.
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