ST2 Running on 1 Cylinder - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 2017, 2:49 am Thread Starter
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ST2 Running on 1 Cylinder

I have a puzzle with my ST2 injection system.
What could cause a 2002 ST2 coming out of a years storage to exhibit the following problem?
The bike started easily, but ran on only the horizontal cylinder.
Took bike for warrant - 20km ride- vertical cylinder plug stayed dry.
Did all the usual isolation tests (swapping spark plugs, trying 4 other plugs, swapping coils.)
The bike firing normally after putting ether in cylinders and good healthy sparking from the plugs told me I have a fuel system problem.
Here's as far as I got:-
After being removed from their mounts ,each fuel injector was was sprayed through with Carb cleaner while tapped open with a 12v battery,then in turn connected to the horizontal cylinder injector electrical snap connector. The ignition was switched on and the starter button pushed. Each injector left a spray pattern on a bit of cardboard. This did NOT work on the vertical cylinder where neither injector left a fuel trace.(no spray).
This is as far as I've got in diagnosis. The Horiz. cylinder ran/runs fine.

5.8 volts at both V and H injector connectors when ignition switch is turned on.
2 injector relays tested, operating normally, pump pumping up pressure. 3 rear injection fuses all OK.
Stumped here! Anybody know what could cause 1 healthy injector to not spray it's fuel?
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 2017, 3:59 am
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Check this out

Injector not firing

Silver '98 Ducati ST2
Red '08 S4RS
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 2017, 4:17 am Thread Starter
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Thanks virgilante, haven't seen that post yet.
Hope it's not the ECU, could that go bad in storage? The bike ran fine before it went into storage.
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 2017, 5:25 am
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I think it's more likely to be corrosion on one of the connectors, check the ecu plug.
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 8th, 2017, 11:58 pm Thread Starter
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Fault traced it back to the ECU. Is there any way to establish whether the fault lies in the EPROM or ECU?
Which is the more likely to fail?
Does anyone know if there are any online resources or wiring diagrams for the Magnetti Marelli IAW M16 for the Ducati ST2's? I've drawn a blank so far.
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 2017, 4:03 am
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Ecu failure is usually water ingress causing corrosion, dry solder joints in big wires , failed capacitors or voltage spikes from incorrect battery polarity or bad earth.
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 2017, 6:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagineer View Post
Fault traced it back to the ECU. Is there any way to establish whether the fault lies in the EPROM or ECU?
Which is the more likely to fail?
Does anyone know if there are any online resources or wiring diagrams for the Magnetti Marelli IAW M16 for the Ducati ST2's? I've drawn a blank so far.
This long thread in the Superbike section has a ton of info in it.

designing the 'ultimate' 1.6M chip

I am pretty sure there was a link to a manual or schematic for the 1.6M buried in there somewhere. Likely also pin outs and such. You could try to go at an ECU repair if you can get the info. Not too easy of a task unless you have the skills. Mico mini repair experience and the tools to perform that level of circuit board work. Test equipment and such. If you do, you could make a killing here fixing ECUs!!!

In answer to your question, I don't know that either is more likely to fail than the other. Both can fail, but also both are pretty robust. Have you removed the chip prior to having these issues? First thing I'd do is pull the chip and splay the pins just slightly, the purpose being to provide a tighter fit in the socket. Also, reseating a component is a valid first attempt at repair. I can't tell you how many issues I've fixed over the years reseating a board, connector or component... Reinstall it indexed correctly and with all the pins in place. It is very easy to have a pin miss and be outside the socket. Have you opened the back shell to the big ECU plug looking for corrosion? Might try that if if you haven't already.

Really, unless you do have the means to conduct fault isolation and repair on the ECU's board, the easiest thing to do is swap in a known good ECU and chip. The ECUs from ST2, ST4, 748, 916 and 996 will work. They are the same ECU, only the chip is different. If you just wanted to test, even a borrowed chip from an ST4, 748 or 916 will get the bike to start and run. The 996 chip should not be used because of the dual injector set up.

Dan.
2001 900SSie (gone, but not forgotten)
2003 ST4s (The Truck)
1995 916 (Junk Yard Dog)
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 2017, 2:10 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks SS904
Will comb through that link thanks!
No, haven't lifted the chip yet, spreading the connectors is my next step.
The ECU is immaculate and clean as a whistle inside. The bike was parked up for a year, and the old battery went flat, had to be replaced with a new battery.
The 1.6m must be pretty fragile if it can't handle that. I came across a reference to a "transil diode" being able to forestall this problem.
Nort sure how to wire that in but it sounds like it may be worth figuring out for the next ECU.

I don't expect reseating the chip to work, but will eliminate that possibility.
May try getting a new chip first, then another ecu if it's not the chip.
I was hoping someone may know if the single cylinder firing thing is a manifestation of some particular failure point on either the chip or the ecu.
It's a classic ecu failure symptom apparently.(trouble is people refer to ecu as a whole, including the chip - I guess that's the "black box" stage.)

I get the impression the 16M is a little fragile, the bike has been garaged and covered the whole time, never commuted, no condensation issues.
Be great if there was some economic more modern replacement for the 16M.
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 2017, 2:41 pm
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If this problem just popped up after sitting that long, I'd say a chip reset is at least a fair bet. If pressed into an answer of which is more likely to fail, I'd say it was the chip. The 1.6m seems pretty reliable in general. Unless there is visible corrosion or the battery was hooked up backwards, I'd try a chip first.

Have you tied to swap the connectors on the injectors to be sure it isn't a faulty injector? Things are triggered here by the ECU closing a path to ground. Source voltage is applied at power up, then the ECU triggers ground path off and on. One item known to cause a lot of heartache is the chintzy ground point on the ECU. It is the tiny wire connected to one of the mounting bolts. Try cleaning that ground connection, or even just use a jumper from a clean spot on the ECU to the neg battery terminal as an easy test.

Electrical connections have a way of getting grungy while sitting, especially if there was maybe a little moisture at the connection when the bike was put away from a washing or a ride in the rain.

If you're in the continental US, I'll offer use of my spare ECU and a known good ST4 chip you could also try. Just foot the bill for postage. PM if interested. As I said, even the ST4 chip will get the bike to start and run. Not well, but it will prove your chip good or bad.
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Dan.
2001 900SSie (gone, but not forgotten)
2003 ST4s (The Truck)
1995 916 (Junk Yard Dog)
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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 2017, 8:25 pm Thread Starter
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SS904

Yes, I've tested both injectors on the operative horizontal cylinder connector and they both give a spray pattern.
Have tested the connection between the Vertical cylinder injector connector and the ECU, wiggled it about in case of a poor connection or fray in the line, perfect. Checked the gearbox top right Earth cable, the ECU ground cable, which is tight, clean, and earthed.
Will try another earth cable as well when I try to fire the bike after the chip reset.

Very generous for your offer, SS904, blown away! Trouble is I'm across the Pacific Ocean from you in Auckland New Zealand!!
We'll get there - I'm not commuting the bike so there's no rush.
I'm still wondering how an over voltage could damage the vertical injector circuit in the ECU/Chip..
Scanning your previous link - oh to be able to code in machine language.
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