ST4S Won't start - Lots checked, ECU problem?

[dinskeep]

I'm having starting problems with an '02 ST4S that I bought last December. Unfortunately I only got to ride it one day before the storms set in, and I've been trying various things for the past few weeks to get it to start, to no avail.

When I say no start, I mean: turn key, dash lights up, immobilizer light goes out, gas pump whirs. Adjust cold start lever to any position, doesn't matter. Bike is on centerstand, neutral light on, hold in clutch & brake, hit the starter and it turns over fine, just starts to catch for a second then dies, but will continue to turn over as long as I hold down the starter. If I let off the starter and turn the key off and on, I can repeat this ad nauseum, though I only do it a couple of times with each test because I don't want to kill the battery. When I'm done for the session I put the tender back on.

Here's the history:

1. Dealer could only start it in December with a jump start, for the test ride and ride home. Ride home was probably 30 miles, I started it twice on my own on the way home without trouble. I just assumed weak battery, didn't think anything of it.

2. December - march - replaced clutch, added DD headlight, replaced cored stock exhaust with normal stock exhaust, cleaned & reoiled K&N filter. Never tried to start it.

3. Last week - wouldn't start, battery was 12.3 volts, figured I'd buy a new Westco from DT and that would cure it. Installed new battery and left on tender for two days, tried to start, wouldn't start, exhibiting same behavior.

4. Tried red key, no difference. Immobilizer light goes out with black or red key.

5. Bought new NGK R2525-10 plugs (had Champion RA59 GC before). The initial catch as weaker with these new NGK's than with the Champions.

6. Bought new NGK DCPR8E's, the initial catch is stronger with these than either previous plug but it still just dies immediately.

7. For grins put the sidestand down, doesn't turn over at all, which seems normal. I'm assuming because it at least turns over with the sidestand up, the sidestand switch is not an issue.

8. Doublechecked all fuses in the fuse block - any others?

9. Checked two relays on the front left, two under the seat. All are open as they should be with no voltage, all close fine as they should when 12V is applied. Any others I should check? I didn't check the starter relay, since it has no trouble turning over.

10. Drained gas tank til dry, allowed to dry overnight. Put in 1.5 gal fresh premium today, still same exact conditions - just starts to catch and then dies, but will turn over as long as I hold the starter button.

What scares me is the mention of bad ECU's on '02 ST4S's in these threads:
No start...'02 ST4s
02' ST4s Won't Start (Again)

I've tried all the things I can think of from these threads and my general motorcycle knowledge, which is moderate but certainly not expert. Is there anything I'm missing? Should I just suck it up and put a DP ECU in there - if I can even find one (no luck so far with two dealers!). Somebody please just tell me as easy as flipping the dumbass switch behind the vertical cylinder or something!

Thanks,
Dave

[Mike]

Originally Posted by dinskeep

Somebody please just tell me as easy as flipping the dumbass switch behind the vertical cylinder or something!

You did flip that switch behind the vertical cylinder, didn't you?

Seriously though...You did a good job of describing the situation, thanks. I'm short on time right now but thought I would mention two things before I think about longer and read your post more carefully.

It would be good to check for spark. If you have that it's probably a fuel related problem of some kind, not necessarily the fuel itself but it could be. You've replaced the fuel but I wonder how much the injectors themselves hold. But that's not my first suspicion. I agree it sounds a lot like a bad ECU but there are some things to check before assuming the worst.

Can you explain at what temperatures the bike was stored and also when the start attemps were made? I wonder if the injectors could be stuck shut? Also even a new battery can be defective. I'm rambling, gotta run.

[Turbo]

Check the little white plug that's behind the high-tension leads on the starter solenoid. This plug is notorious for working loose. If it's not in place, the engine won't start. People I know have used a zip tie to make sure that pesky plug doesn't work loose again.

Failing that, it might be your ECU. I had exactly the same problem with my 2002 ST4s. My ECU didn't go bad until I had a lot of miles on the bike. It was replaced with a DP ECU and I haven't had a single starting issue in the last 30K+ miles.

[Fariborz]

Mark,

If that connector is not connected, the starter will not turn!

Have you measured what your current voltage is?

How many miles on the bike?

Do you know if the fuel filter has been replaced (in case the mileage is high)?

A relay closing when activated does not necessarily mean that the relay can pull enough current through. That said it does not sound like a bad relay problem to me.

Have you checked the sidestand switch? A bad/loose switch can make the ECU think the sidestand is down.

Have you tried to bump start the bike in third gear? If not, turn the ignition to the ON position and pull the throttle advance lever (choke by some) to half/full position. Then try to push the bike to start it.

Please let us know if you solve this problem so that we can all learn.

-Fariborz

[Bill_Anderson]

The previous owner of my late 02-ST4s had installed a side stand cutout on the bike, which enabled the bike to be started with the side stand down while it was in neutral. The bike always had trouble starting. Its symptoms were very similar to yours: the starter would work, but the engine would not turn over, as though fuel or spark were not getting into it. I ran the battery down once trying to get it to start.

Ducati Seattle initially thought it was a bad ECU, but it turned out to be the side stand cutout. Once they removed it, no more starting problems. The unit had no brand name on it. I made no attempt to diagnose the malfunction or re-install the unit.

[FatguyRacer]

Heres a thought.

Try a different battery you know to be good. The WestCo i bought from DT didnt do squat for me either out of the box. Even after I plugged the bike in on a Tender for a couple of days like you did. At first i thought it was a bad solenoid, so i replaced it. Still no start with the WestCo. So for snicks and grins I put the old battery back in. Fired right up. I put the WestCo on a deep cycle battery charger on a slow charge overnight. I havnt tested it out yet (only because I loath taking those farings off again). Since you dont have a good battery to swap back in, try a deep cycle charge on the Westco to see if that brings it up to spec.

[Gearbox]

When you begin the process of attempting to start your engine it is important not to take too long before pressing the starter button.

I am not sure exactly what time is set but if you wait too long between switching your ignition on and pressing the starter button the ignition goes into immobiliser mode.

I dont know why or even if this is a normal factory setting but I do know from experience with my 01-ST4s that this is what happens because I occasionally get distracted and dont get that button pressed soon enough and sure enough she wont fire but will turn-over just like yours

My procedure is:-

Ensure bike is on centre stand and that side stand is in the raised position.

Check ignition cut-out switch is "on"

Set the fast-idle lever to 3/4 out

Disable my Meta Alarm

SWITCH ON Ignition and wait for fuel guage to display.

Pull Clutch Lever in and press starter button.

+++

If I get distracted after turning the ignition but before pressing the button I run through this procedure again (Anal I know but it works for me !)

Hope this is your problem otherwise I would check for sparks (Front cylimnder is easily accessible and then if fuel is getting through (Is the spark plug wet ?? - If not maybe the diaphram on the tank is faulty..?)

Apart from that I leave it to other , more experienced , forum members.
PS: YOu could ask the shop to switch a standard ECU from one of their bikes (Sim year/same model of course) , if they have one , just to see if it fires.

[Gearbox]

As a new owner to the bike , like all of us , you have been giving your new toy a good look over and can see from another post that you were concerned about the fuel pipes on your tank.

Mike gave you , as usual , his concise and correct diagnosis.
But I wondered , did you do this work before or after the starting problem ?
The reason I ask , and Mike might want to give his opinion on this , the beather hose looks like it is or has been slightly kinked.

If this pipe became completely kinked when the tank was dropped back down then no air could escape from the tank when fuel was trying to be drawn by the injectors and hence either less than sufficient or perhaps even no fuel would flow. (The vacum caused in the tank by the blocked breather would cause this to happen)

What do you think ???

[Lync]

What temperature is it where the bike is and how long has it been at that temp. I would imagine the gas has been in it since it was parked.

Sound to me like it just needs primed. Open up the air box and squirt in a small amount of gas or use some starting fluid. Now try starting it again.

[ducatimike]

When you pull the plugs, are they wet with fuel? Check to make sure the fuel pump is working. When you first turn on the key, you should hear the fuel pump start up. Another thing to check is the high pressure line inside the tank. Sometimes the stock ones split and causes fuel starvation to the injectors.

good luck
Mike