Can I get a few more miles outta this clutch? - Ducati.ms

ptourin · Dec 26th, 2011, 8:35 pm

Well - What what do you think? Look at the pressure plate photo - can I get another 10k or so? <rofl>...

Seriously - I'm sure this is the original clutch, and after 27k it's totally beat, as you can see from the photos. I picked up a 1098 clutch a month ago - I posted a thread asking if it would swap OK - the replies were all YES, and so far it looks fine. But I wanted to check a few things before starting in...

First - I want to check again about the swap - hoping that some of you know these parts well enough to get me headed in the right direction. The 1098 is clearly a different clutch - you can see from the 2nd and 3rd comparison photos. The basket is much lighter and is banded. It fits fine and looks like it should work. The hub is similar to the original, but the mounting hardware is different. Will I use the new hub and its lock washer (in place of the original 851.1.001.1B), put a positioning pin in it (it doesn't have one) and use the original bush, lock washer and nut? This seems right - the 1098 hub mounting nut is different and won't fit at all - I'm not sure which lockwasher to use, since the 1098 one is thicker than the stock one.

Second - when I pulled the basket I found that it was greasy behind it. It doesn't look like an oil leak - nothing runny/drippy, just a bit of thick greasy stuff like there might have been a tiny bit of seepage past the seal. Is this pretty normal? - it doesn't look like a problem to me, just checking.

Last - while I have it apart, do I want to dig up that quiet clutch thread and do that mod, or is that not relevant if I use the 1098 clutch parts?

Thanks for any advice - Pete

cb4265 · Dec 26th, 2011, 9:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptourin

Well - What what do you think? Look at the pressure plate photo - can I get another 10k or so? <rofl>...

Seriously - I'm sure this is the original clutch, and after 27k it's totally beat, as you can see from the photos. I picked up a 1098 clutch a month ago - I posted a thread asking if it would swap OK - the replies were all YES, and so far it looks fine. But I wanted to check a few things before starting in...

First - I want to check again about the swap - hoping that some of you know these parts well enough to get me headed in the right direction. The 1098 is clearly a different clutch - you can see from the 2nd and 3rd comparison photos. The basket is much lighter and is banded. It fits fine and looks like it should work. The hub is similar to the original, but the mounting hardware is different. Will I use the new hub and its lock washer (in place of the original 851.1.001.1B), put a positioning pin in it (it doesn't have one) and use the original bush, lock washer and nut? This seems right - the 1098 hub mounting nut is different and won't fit at all - I'm not sure which lockwasher to use, since the 1098 one is thicker than the stock one.

Second - when I pulled the basket I found that it was greasy behind it. It doesn't look like an oil leak - nothing runny/drippy, just a bit of thick greasy stuff like there might have been a tiny bit of seepage past the seal. Is this pretty normal? - it doesn't look like a problem to me, just checking.

Last - while I have it apart, do I want to dig up that quiet clutch thread and do that mod, or is that not relevant if I use the 1098 clutch parts?

Thanks for any advice - Pete

Hi Pete,

I have the same basket in mine, use as much of your original ST stuff as required. The oil/grease is probably just an assembly grease so it's easy to get apart again.
The quiet clutch mod is well worth doing, although it is not silent, just a hell of a lot quieter than what you currently have.
If you are installing a new clutch pack like a Barnett or similar, I suggest you spray each plate, friction & steel with lithium spray grease, then wipe off as best you can, then re-assemble. The small amount of grease left allows for slight slippage at take off and is particularly good on down shifts, almost like a slipper clutch I imagine.

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to all

Craig

**ST3S** · Dec 26th, 2011, 10:11 pm

Damn, the teeth on your friction plates are friggin hammered! Yes, they need to go away. After that many miles you are bound to have a tremendous buildup of muck in there. Also, years 2002 and earlier (or so??), Ducati used the heavy baskets. The lighter aluminum baskets with the band should work just fine. Just get yourself a good set of aluminum plates.

ptourin · Dec 26th, 2011, 11:08 pm

Thanks Craig, that's all good to hear. I checked the lock washers and they're not too much different in thickness, so I think either will do. The clutch came from the 1098 after about 2000 miles, so there's very little wear. Stack height is 38.9 - the stack height on the original plates is still 37.3 - they're not worn down so much, they're just beat to shreds. So it's looking like a simple reassembly, once I get new o-rings and the pressure plate bearing.

If I understand the quiet clutch mod correctly, both my original stack and the 1098 stack are already set up that way - the stack starts with 2 metal plates, then the 1st friction plate, etc.

Looking forward to the first spring ride - the original clutch was so worn that it'd shake the whole bike when I let it out in neutral <g>...

Bill_Anderson · Dec 27th, 2011, 12:11 am

I got a little over 40,000 miles from the clutch of my 04-ST4s.

ptourin · Dec 27th, 2011, 6:30 am

Oh, I wish, Bill!
The original owner told me that he'd been real careful of the bike in terms of doing all services, etc., but that he rode it hard - and that's what it looks like. Look at the plate clearance on that first pic - my manual says max. plate-basket gap should be 0.6 mm - there has to be 4 mm or more there. We'll see if I do better, with my gentle touch - I hope I keep the bike long enough to put 40k more on it! <g>...

As for the quiet clutch mod - there are a lot of threads! I found 5 threads here and one at Desmo Northwest - one of them has a link to a doc file that has a very detailed explanation - happy to pass on the threads if anyone wants them without having to search. Here's the relevant part of the doc:

"2: Drop one of the old junk friction plates into the basket first, pushing it right down into the slots. As the tabs on the plate reach the radiussed ends of the slots, they will lock into the curve while pressure is applied, and cannot rattle to-and-fro. This is the first significant aspect of the mod.

3: Then add the second old tabbed friction plate.

4: Now slide the first plain steel plate onto the clutch centre and push it as far in as it will go. For the quietening mod to work, that steel plate has to contact the face of the previous friction plate before it hits the bottoms of the splines/slots on the centre. "

So that's my next step - gotta see if those friction plates of mine are too worn to lock as in 2), and gotta see if they're thick enough so that 4) works right. If not, I may be begging a few old steel friction plates <g>...

Nateducst2 · Dec 27th, 2011, 6:48 am

P,

You should have better luck with the aluminum basket and plates! Especially if you do the quiet clutch mod! It not only quiets it down a ton, it definitely will keep your basket from looking like it does now! Less noise = less banging = less damage to the clutch! I was AMAZED at what my bike sounded like after doing the clutch mod. My initial thoughts were, HOLY SHIT, this sounds g-r-r-e-a-T! Really lets that Ducati roar shine sooo much more. I ride my Duc like I stole it, and my clutch basket looks absolutely nothing like yours even after 40K miles; however, it does need replaced!

Good luck sir!,

Nate

Corse1 · Dec 27th, 2011, 3:59 pm

It is important that once the old friction plates are inserted first that they only protrude past the basket slots by 0.5mm towards you.
I only used one as they protrude too far otherwise. Every pack is different. I had to grind the tabs of the junk plate on an angle to match the radius of the basket making it sit a bit further down.

Works a treat.

ptourin · Dec 27th, 2011, 6:51 pm

I have the opposite problem - my old friction plate tabs are bashed so much that they're too narrow for the 1st one to seat in the bottom of the basket slots - I'm going to check with our local Duc shop and see if they have some older steel friction plates lying around that I can have or buy cheaply. I assume you meant the top plate should protrude past the bottom of the HUB slots, right? - so that they just put a slight bit of pressure against the bottom metal plate...

Corse1 · Dec 31st, 2011, 4:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptourin

I assume you meant the top plate should protrude past the bottom of the HUB slots, right? - so that they just put a slight bit of pressure against the bottom metal plate...

That is correct. Also if they stick out too far you have to start dumping one of your steel plates from the pack as it will sit too far out on the hub and be in danger of falling of the edge when the clutch is engaged.

Mine worked ok with one out but I took the time to adjust the tabs on the junk plate to sit in the correct position then added the steel plate back to the pack..