Limited # of starts on red key? - Ducati.ms

Noid · Dec 17th, 2011, 1:36 pm

Hey guys, I'm a fairly new owner of a 2004 ST3. The bike came with only the red key, so I took it to a local Ducati dealer to have the 12k mile service preformed as well as getting some copies made from the red key. Currently I'm being told that the red key has a limited number of starts before it trips the ECU and due to various circumstances I would like to confirm this is true. I've tried search around on the internet, but short of calling another dealer, I thought I would ask here first and see if anyone has heard this - especially specific to my year and make. Thanks

SS904 · Dec 17th, 2011, 5:52 pm

I don't believe that is true at all. At least I've never heard it before and there is nothing that I can remember reading in the owner's manual about it only being good for a certain number of starts.

Sounds kind of like when I brought my first Duc (a 900SSis) to the dealer I bought it from to ask how much a valve adjustment would be. The Ducati "certified" mechanic was walking around the bike like it was the first 900SS he had ever seen and finally proclaimed that the engine would have to come out to adjust the valves. Decided to learn to do it my self right then and there...

Noid · Dec 17th, 2011, 8:30 pm

Yeah. I originally asked them to order me a blank so I can run a copy from the red key, that was two months ago. Then a month back I took the bike in for the service, at which point I was told they could only run copies two at a time (???!). So now it's been there a month waiting for the second blank to arrive... they said they are waiting until the second blank arrives before they start the service due to the previously mentioned red key start-up limit.

I should however mention that I decided to call another Ducati shop (Moto Corse Performance - Ducati Performance Specialists) and ask them if there was a limited number of starts on the red key; the guy I spoke with also confirmed there was.

Just for the record, the shop I'm currently working with is in Knoxville, TN (Knoxville TN Motorcycle, Suzuki, Polaris, ATV, Ducati, KTM, BMW, Victory, Triumph dealer, Ultimate Motorsports has all your Motorcycle needs. in case it ever becomes relevant to someone finding this tread later.

Derek · Dec 19th, 2011, 4:15 am

You're being told a load of tosh. There is no limit on the amount of starts from the red key. You do need the red key to make further black keys of which you can have up to, I think, eight current copies.

Noid · Dec 19th, 2011, 7:13 pm

I've sent off to Ducati from their website for more information regarding this issue. I'll post the response if or when I get it. I agree that the responses I've received from various mechanics is hard to believe, but I have a hard time completely dismissing it. Thanks for all those who responded, either way. I'm very determined to find out with 100% certainty, as I want to be sure before I confront the mechanic in this case, as it will not be a pretty scene if I know him to be dishonest.

DuckMan · Dec 19th, 2011, 7:39 pm

Yes its true. Sort of. According to my factory service manual for my ST3 using the red key you can program a maximum of 7 black keys. That's 8 keys total including the red key. The limitation is in the immobilizes system.

But I don't think it has anything to do with starting the bike. The limitation is on programming black keys. You should not be using the red key to start the bike.

Noid · Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:16 am

Last question I think, and this one should be easy. How many shims are there in the ST3 engine - I would have assumed one per value. Everything I've read seems to verify this, but allowing for the unknown, I would like to know why I was told "11 out of 12 shims needed to be adjusted" for this service. Bumping me from a quoted "800-900$" service to a $1300 service.

I imagine I've been taken for a ride without my choosing.

#edit - unrelated, but I've already purchase the manuals and tools with intentions to perform all maintenance myself for now own. Not really seen as an investment, but at least when my own fouled work costs me money, I'll not be looking to hurt someone else in a special way.

snoogyns848 · Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:19 am

There are 2 shims per valve. One closer and one opener.

DuckMan · Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noid

Last question I think, and this one should be easy. How many shims are there in the ST3 engine - I would have assumed one per value. Everything I've read seems to verify this, but allowing for the unknown, I would like to know why I was told "11 out of 12 shims needed to be adjusted" for this service. Bumping me from a quoted "800-900$" service to a $1300 service.

I imagine I've been taken for a ride without my choosing.

#edit - unrelated, but I've already purchase the manuals and tools with intentions to perform all maintenance myself for now own. Not really seen as an investment, but at least when my own fouled work costs me money, I'll not be looking to hurt someone else in a special way.

There's an opening and a closing shim on each valve in a desmo system.

Noid · Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:23 am

Good to know. Thanks

Going up tomorrow to pick up an item that was ordered mid December of last year that they've been sitting on after being told I would get a call when it arrived. Finally called today only to be told "oops, guess we should have called". Wanted to know exactly how irate to be with them.