Motorcycle Safety Foundation Class Take Aways - Ducati.ms

GarrettCustom · Dec 4th, 2011, 6:56 pm

Some of the take a ways from class are:

1. I need to pratice more 2 finger braking. And my brakes groin under really hard braking. Off season project new pads, change brake fluid and rotors if check book lets me.

2. The big eye opener is the percentage of accidents that happen at 10 to 2 O'clock position which is 90%. At 11 to 1 O'clock position the total percentage drops to 77%.

The data was provided by the Hurt Report. The MSF and Oklahoma University are doing a new study right now but the funding was just finalized, so the study is just beginning but I would not expect data from at least 3 years.

Just trying to relay information out for those that have not taken an MSF or read any safety reports.

Roger

**Gearbox** · Dec 5th, 2011, 4:41 am

2. The big eye opener is the percentage of accidents that happen at 10 to 2 O'clock position which is 90%. At 11 to 1 O'clock position the total percentage drops to 77%.

Please clarify this statement , are we talking time of day ?

waco748 · Dec 5th, 2011, 6:12 am

Why do you need to practice more 2-finger braking? We teach to use all-4 fingers for more precise muscle/braking control and to use both brakes when stopping or slowing. We do mention trail braking when a novice is noted as using one or two fingers during braking (the novice's statement is usually one that involves "trail braking" when they are riding the trails on a dirt bike); we note that education regarding more-advanced riding techniques is available from ARC or during track days.

Folks with small hands tend to use only 2 fingers and some will "twist their wrist" to pull the front brake, usually resulting in the engine racing as they also twisted the throttle during the braking. By using the right thumb as a "hook" to ensure the throttle is fully rolled-off, all 4 fingers have a longer reach to squeeze the brake/clutch levers.

I'm glad you took the class; ride safe!
Curt

**Gearbox** · Dec 5th, 2011, 9:28 am

'Trail Braking' in Europe is seen as staying on the brakes as you enter a corner (usually the rear to stabilise the bike) but is not encouraged as general rule (in particular for novices or in wet conditions) due to the extra demand on tyre grip.

Two-Finger braking over hbere is seen as offering finer control on most modern bikes with , seemingly , infinite braking ability but only where this is possibe without compromising overall control including the throttle.

stryder · Dec 5th, 2011, 10:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearbox

'Trail Braking' in Europe is seen as staying on the brakes as you enter a corner (usually the rear to stabilise the bike) but is not encouraged as general rule (in particular for novices or in wet conditions) due to the extra demand on tyre grip.

Two-Finger braking over hbere is seen as offering finer control on most modern bikes with , seemingly , infinite braking ability but only where this is possibe without compromising overall control including the throttle.

Depending on the brakes, 2 fingered braking can result in either some big pucker moments if the lever is pulled so far back as to hit the remaining 2 fingers which stops braking power, or on newer mono-calpier brakes, it could be the best way to modulate very good binding power to avoid lock ups. I use four all the time, but I've never tried the new mon-caliper type brakes. In some motorcycling corners, like HD riders, trail braking means dragging your rear brake during tight and slow cornering while giving it some throttle to help keep balance. I've always thought it referred to trailng off the front brake as you reach the appex until you are either all the way off the brake or just ever so slightly on it as you demand peak traction from the front. I like to set up my corner entry speed early but learning good trail braking techniques can help in an unfamilar turn that you've approached a little too hot.

**Gearbox** · Dec 5th, 2011, 11:37 am

You are quite right Stryder about trailing the front but this is not encouraged by the 'Advanced' trainers/orginistions over here (ROSPA/IAM/BIKESAFE Etc) for on the road. Like you (and myself) they prefer to teach that corner speed should be assessed and set before commiting to a corner.
Nevertheless it is sometimes necessary so as experience grows it can be added to the toolbox for riding options.

GarrettCustom · Dec 5th, 2011, 7:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearbox

2. The big eye opener is the percentage of accidents that happen at 10 to 2 O'clock position which is 90%. At 11 to 1 O'clock position the total percentage drops to 77%.

Please clarify this statement , are we talking time of day ?

Let me see if I can clarify this better. I was pretty shocked to learn that most motorcycle accidents occur at 10-2 o'clock. I figured that most accidents are cause by too much young dumb and full of ...... well you get the idea or sitting a light and getting rear ended. Just a big surprise to learn that people cut in front of you, and that is my big take away from class. I do find myself now when I ride paying more attention to what on-coming traffic is doing than prior to attending this class.

As far as 2 finger braking goes. It is just a technique that we did not get to practice during decreasing radius turns. From what the instructor says its supposed to allow you turn tighter if you went into a turn to "hot". I haven't 2 finger brake before, not a really a big fan of it.

Hope this clarifies my comments more.

Roger

waco748 · Dec 6th, 2011, 6:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearbox

2. The big eye opener is the percentage of accidents that happen at 10 to 2 O'clock position which is 90%. At 11 to 1 O'clock position the total percentage drops to 77%.

Please clarify this statement , are we talking time of day ?

Not the time of day but, rather, clock position of the vehicle. To the rider, 12o'clock is straight ahead; 10:30 to 1:30 would be 45 degrees left and right of straight ahead (12 o'clock). Intersections are the most likely place for the motorcycle accident, with the other vehicle violating the motorcycle right-of-way, and often violating traffic controls. (Hurt Report, 1981). Here's the link to a summary of the report: click here

Here's another interesting statement in the report: "92% were self-taught
or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents." Many states, including Texas, now require BRC completion before the rider can get his/her endorsement; Texas DPS no longer gives a riding test, therefore, the novice must attend the course or "ride dirty". Normally, the MSF certificate given the graduate waives the riding test and only the written test is required (TX, OK, and AR are three such states).

I'm glad the OP attended and completed the course, be it BRC or BRC2. Thanks for sharing your takeaways, GarrettCustom.

TheX · Dec 6th, 2011, 6:20 am

Trail braking on the track is critical, brake to the apex and throttle out of the turn. Coasting is losing. That said you have to be at 0 braking if you acquire max lean. It's a balancing act and takes a lot of practice. It definitely helps with turn in for me.

Love the MSF course and have taken the advanced class as a refresher many times.

Motard-Menace · Dec 7th, 2011, 5:09 pm

It will be interesting to see the new study from Oklahoma when it is done. I know that funding was short at one point for the scope of the project they initially were trying to undertake so hopefully the end result will be informative. That said I would just about bet many of the results will be close to the same found in the Hurt report. Funny but humans usually don't find many new ways to get in trouble. Most likely the majority of collisions are still occurring when another vehicle turns in front of us and you will have a higher rate of survivability with protective gear including helmet use.

I think some of the difference will come in the data for age groups now that the majority of MC riders are aging and I would guess the age group from 40-60 accounts for the majority now riding on the street.

As for trail braking it is a good skill set to have but not something the novice rider should employ much as you can put yourself into a bad situation quickly when you reach your motorcycles traction limit. Nice tool if needed though....