Yearly Engine to Frame Bolt Maintenance for ST’s

[mbevans]

While this is not to bring up the pounded subject of broken engine mounts, it is a word to the wise that we should all be checking our engine to frame bolts on a yearly basis.

Yes, we have all read countless threads, and many have seen the results of poorly tightened engine to frame bolts, quite ugly actually.

The reason I bring this subject up is after doing my first winter maintenance on my 2002 ST4s, the typical stuff; rocker/cam inspection, valve adjustments (almost all of them), belts, fluids radiator/brakes/clutch, DT fan kit, PR2 tires, performed this winter R&R @ 19k miles. I found mine VERY loose. MY engine to frame bolts were @ 20Nm!!!

OK, I should have prefaced this with the fact that this was a well taken care of machine prior to my purchase @ 14k miles, well dealer serviced, total cream-puff of a machine.

For all the years I’ve had Ducati’s performed all my own maintenance for race/track/street bikes I’ve never found these bolts soo loose. I have over the years installed the larger rear engine bolt on my race bikes, and always checked all of my bikes, but most of my machines had the standard sized bolts.

My humble opinion is the ST series of bikes weighing much more than a regular Ducati Superbike, and the fact that the ST’s normally wear hard bags and passengers more often put more of a strain on this aspect of this model of Ducati…..

So from this day forward, every time I pull my fairings I will spend the extra 5 minutes to pull out the torque wrench and give her a check! And after recently seeing a welded up rear case I think it will be well worth it………..

Cheers
M

[dirkwrong]

So put a stripe of paint across the nut and bolt for a quick and easy visual inspection.

[mbevans]

How does that show a stretch in the bolts? Mine were done with a stripe of paint, and it showed "still-adjusted". To the best of my knowledge that would only tell you if the bolt-to-nut loosened which on my bike was no the case, the fricken bolts stretched....

Originally Posted by dirkwright

So put a stripe of paint across the nut and bolt for a quick and easy visual inspection.

[erikrichard]

If the bolts are for sure stretching I'd replace them with Nichols or TPO, the more they stretch the more likely they are to fail.

[latte committee]

Originally Posted by mbevans

While this is not to bring up the pounded subject of broken engine mounts, it is a word to the wise that we should all be checking our engine to frame bolts on a yearly basis.

Why YEARLY ? .... for the amount of time and effort required, it SHOULD be done at EVERY SERVICE, be that performed by a Ducati dealer, any other dealer, or the owner themselves. If the owner does not have the tooling ot skills, then find somebody who has.


Yes, we have all read countless threads, and many have seen the results of poorly tightened engine to frame bolts, quite ugly actually.

Insufficient torque on engine mounting bolts is only part of the Ducati broken engine cases saga. Your comment further down is MUCH closer to the root cause.


The reason I bring this subject up is after doing my first winter maintenance on my 2002 ST4s, the typical stuff; rocker/cam inspection, valve adjustments (almost all of them), belts, fluids radiator/brakes/clutch, DT fan kit, PR2 tires, performed this winter R&R @ 19k miles. I found mine VERY loose. MY engine to frame bolts were @ 20Nm!!!

WoW ,,, I'm glad you found it before any disasterous outcome. But given my experience, and that of others, you might want to have the cases ultrasonically tested. There may be cracking that is not yet visable to the naked eye.


OK, I should have prefaced this with the fact that this was a well taken care of machine prior to my purchase @ 14k miles, well dealer serviced, total cream-puff of a machine.

So was mine. Fully dealer serviced ,,,,, all of it's life.
Mine had 34,000klms on it when I purchased from the original owner.
Mine failed with 39,800klms on the clock, and I personally checked the torque on mine TWICE in that time, AND had applied loctite. Mine was a tad slack each time I checked. I can't say that I checked what torque they were at because I did not measure that, but they did require additional tightening both times to reach specification.

The factory HT bolts DO S T R E T C H


For all the years I’ve had Ducati’s performed all my own maintenance for race/track/street bikes I’ve never found these bolts soo loose. I have over the years installed the larger rear engine bolt on my race bikes, and always checked all of my bikes, but most of my machines had the standard sized bolts.

My humble opinion is the ST series of bikes weighing much more than a regular Ducati Superbike, and the fact that the ST’s normally wear hard bags and passengers more often put more of a strain on this aspect of this model of Ducati…..

And therein lay the problem.
100% SPOT ON DIAGNOSIS.
The Ducati design / Engineering departments have FAILED in this regard of the ST series bikes.
The engine mounting bolts ALONE are NOT the sole reason for engine case cracking. But they are ONE of a NUMBER of contributing factors.

So from this day forward, every time I pull my fairings I will spend the extra 5 minutes to pull out the torque wrench and give her a check! And after recently seeing a welded up rear case I think it will be well worth it………..

If your bike still runs the OEM bolts (10mm or 12mm, doesn't matter) ,,,, CHECK THE TORQUE REGULARLY.
The front mounting causes very little trouble, but it is just as susseptable as the rear bolt to losing specification torque. Located behind the fairings makes it more of a deal to check, but well worth doing EVERY time the plastics are off.
The rear bolt is by far the one of greatest concern. Fortunately it is instantly accessible.
CHECK IT OFTEN ..... and NOT JUST THE TORQUE.
Remove the bolt by punching it out with a "dummy bolt" to maintain engine alignment.
Inspect the bolt for signs of curviture, and associated fretting marks.
These are sure signs that your chassis has been subjected to stresses towards the upper end of the design capabilities.
Cheers
M

The rebuilding of my ST3 is now only days away from completion.
A long and frustrating 5 months, with a LOT of scientific and technical inspections and tests to ascertain the reason why it failed.

The engine mounting bolts are definately a major player in the failure.

[Ducoddy-SS]

TPO has a killer price on the Titanium Engine Bolts for the SS and the ST.
149.00 with discounts if you sign up for a group buy...
Come on Employment..
Daddy needs some Bolts!
Mike S

[C-simian]

Allan indicated to me Friday that he's about to close the window for deciding how much percentage to give on the group discount. So far, not that many have expressed interest. He'll close out in a day or so and then email everyone the discount code.

If you register interest in the group discount, it doesn't commit you to buying, but it does give him a measure of interest. If you are interested and might purchase if the price is right, send your message to sales@tpoparts.com with the subject of the Email reading "Engine Mount Stud Group Buy." This is for the titanium engine bolts only.

Once he computes it, he'll email everyone who expressed interest, if they wish to follow through. TPO manufactures 12mm bolts to fit all but the early year ST series, and all subsequent Ducati models, up through the 1198.

When he lets me and everyone else know, I'll be sure to post the discount code here so that anyone can participate if they wish, whether or not they have expressed prior interest. But it makes sense to email Allan, since it simply gives him a ballpark figure. The discount code will only be good for a limited period of time, after which the deal will be over.

Ron

[scottieducati]

Would this mean no luck for '98 ST2 owners?

Originally Posted by C-simian

Allan indicated to me Friday that he's about to close the window for deciding how much percentage to give on the group discount. So far, not that many have expressed interest. He'll close out in a day or so and then email everyone the discount code.

If you register interest in the group discount, it doesn't commit you to buying, but it does give him a measure of interest. If you are interested and might purchase if the price is right, send your message to sales@tpoparts.com with the subject of the Email reading "Engine Mount Stud Group Buy." This is for the titanium engine bolts only.

Once he computes it, he'll email everyone who expressed interest, if they wish to follow through. TPO manufactures 12mm bolts to fit all but the early year ST series, and all subsequent Ducati models, up through the 1198.

When he lets me and everyone else know, I'll be sure to post the discount code here so that anyone can participate if they wish, whether or not they have expressed prior interest. But it makes sense to email Allan, since it simply gives him a ballpark figure. The discount code will only be good for a limited period of time, after which the deal will be over.

Ron

[C-simian]

Originally Posted by scottieducati

Would this mean no luck for '98 ST2 owners?

The TPO statement is that their 12mm bolts fit all models all years - but that's contingent on drilling out your frames and cases to 12mm.

Most (correctly in my opinion) with 10mm bolts do not wish to engage in that activity, especially given various riders' experiences. I know I would not drill out my cases, but would go with the 10mm bolts. I believe Robert procured some 10mm bolts when he did his last year - chime in here Robert, if you like.

So the TPO buy is for the 12mm bolts. Allan hasn't gotten back to us yet on how much discount he's willing to give, but I thought I'd drop him a line if he hasn't gotten back by the end of the week. We're getting to riding season, after all, and I want those titanium bolts holding up my shorts.

Ron

[KarlFitt]

I know it's been posted before, but I can't find it.

What are the torque figures for these bolts?

I am putting the plastics back on mine tonight and I'd like to have these properly torgued