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Old Sep 8th, 2006, 1:09 am   #1 (permalink)
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2006 ST-3 and closed loop EFI

I've seen a few postings here regarding the "need" for an ECU mod/replacement/chip to add accessiries to 2006 ST-3s. You don't need an ECU change to add new mufflers or a new air box to a 2006 ST-3. That's what a "Closed Loop" EFI system is for.

On ST2, ST3 and ST4 Ducatis 2005 and earlier the EFI systems were all open loop systems. In 2006 Ducati went to a closed loop EFI system on the ST-3.

Open loop means that there is no feed back to change the operation. Closed loop means you measure something and make changes based on those maesurements. In an Electronic Fuel Injection--EFI system, the loop is closed with the oxygen (O2) sensor.

For 80 or 90 years the open loop fuel system used a carburetor.

The next step, c. 1980, was/is an Electronic Fuel Injection-EFI with built-in fuel maps, i.e., an open loop EFI system. An open loop EFI will get better mileage and have reduced emission over a carburetor fuel system. An open loop system is set at the factory for how it left the factory. That's why you need Power Commanders and chips to re-map the fuel supplied when you change the breathing ability of the motor.

A closed loop system should self compensate for the breathing ability of the motor. That's what the O2 sensor is for, to read the exhaust oxygen and compensate (change the air/fuel ratio), to maintain the optimum stoichiometric (air/fuel) ratio for any operating condition(s).

Several beneficial effects arise from a closed loop system. First, they will get better mileage over a range of operating conditions. Second, they can be better tuned for elimination of unburned fuel (and the attendant SMOG products). Third, they automatically compensate for altitude. Closed loop vehicle EFI systems will run smoother at altitude as the Electronic Control Unit--ECU meters a smaller amount of fuel to match the smaller amount of air ingested at altitude. More on 1 and 2 later.

In order to boost the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) and meet the EPA SMOG standards, car manufacturers made the switch to closed loop systems 10 to 15 years ago. It costs more engineering time (dyno time and tweaking) to make the fuel and air maps for a closed loop system.

By 1990 all Ford 5.0 engines had closed loop systems. For non-supercharged or non-NOx applications; new heads, cams, exhaust, intake systems, even much bigger displacement blocks all just bolted together with no changes to the computer systems. GM did the same on the 5.7 engines a little later. But now almost all car EFI systems are closed loop and speed equipment can be added on and the mixture is automagically set to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio.

Forced by various Government agencies, it is mostly for the 2nd reason (above), SMOG limitations, that closed loop systems are now making it motorcycles. Without the financial incentive (or is it a whip?) for cleaner emissions, the motorcycle mfrs haven't had the incentive to incurr the expense of going to closed loop systems. Now with the new European standards, we are seeing BMW-motorcycle and Ducati switch to closed loop systems. We are also seeing, in both cases, the result of trying to squeeze too much out of the closed loop systems, as both companies struggled in the first application to get the surging problems taken care of.

In reading the later ST-3 surging threads, it appears that Ducati may have finally fixed the surging problem and the EFI target fuel ratio is now proper across the rpm range. I could see (if the lean mixture really is sorted out in the '06 EFI system) that the late '06 and or '07 computers will be used as a retrofit kit to handle engine breathing changes. [Ford Motor Sports did sell, and may still do so, a kit to retro-fit earlier open loop EFI 5.0 engines to the later type closed loop systems.]

Lucky ST3 buyers field tested this system for Ducati and we'll likely see the closed loop system applied to the rest of the Ducati product line over the next few years. Yes, even the streetable race bikes. Some mfrs factory race bikes have closed loop systems that are now integrated with other sensors to manage power application in maximizing traction. They don't have to worry about SMOG, but they do pay attention to fuel economy.

So, there really may be an upside to all these '06 closed loop surging problems. You'll probably get better mileage and not have to worry about spending money on ECU changes when you upgrade exhaust and intake systems.

Yes, this will hit the EFI/ECU tuner market and they may eventually move on to other fields, just like what happened in the automobile market.
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Old Sep 8th, 2006, 10:53 am   #2 (permalink)
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Dave, this sounds quite good and makes me feel better about my (now resolved) surging. Where did you get this information?
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Old Sep 8th, 2006, 11:09 am   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jneglia
Dave, this sounds quite good and makes me feel better about my (now resolved) surging. Where did you get this information?
The best source is the link I supplied in the original message. Click the blue underlined stiochmetric. In addition my personal info source is two points. I worked as a project engineer for Ford in the 1980s on an effort where we tried to interface a fiber optic network wiring harness replacement to the then open loop EFI system. As part of this project I had a copy of Ford's EFI stategy manual--which I later on had to shred. Second, I also am an avid hot rodder and have dabbled in and followed the Hot Rod Mustang scene. The best thing to happen to the street-able hot rods is closed loop EFI systems.

It will take a while for the information to trickle down to the Dealers and for the after market folks to figure out what has happened.
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Old Sep 8th, 2006, 12:16 pm   #4 (permalink)
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Great write up.

Remember though, the close loop system works with factory parameters. We stil put our cars on a dyno and fine tune, because the fuel/timing maps are based on a nominal system and are pretty generic. Yes you can make some changes without tuning, but to get the best operation, they should be tuned. We've seen as many as 20 HP gains on a stock engine (Car with stock 320 HP engine) by tuning it. and that was with a safe tune, meaning correct A/F ratio across the entire RPM range.
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Old Sep 8th, 2006, 12:19 pm   #5 (permalink)
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OK Dave I was writing the last as you must been typing yours.

I agree, close loop rocks. now if only we could make the o2 sensor last..

BtW the cars I'm referring to are a 94 Cobra (5.0, My son's) and a 99 Cobra (32v 4.6, mine)
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Old Sep 8th, 2006, 2:07 pm   #6 (permalink)
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K, I'm going to stick my nose in here. Good overview of why we want closed loop sytems and why the ST can be opened up for breathing without changes to the ECU. I have done a bunch of work with a GM TBI closed loop system retrofit on my old 1976 IHC scout with OEM motor. Altough initial tuning was made by hacking the ECU on that, the system works quite well for an application foreign to the system. Additional performance can be attained with further programing changes but usually at the expense of other attributes such as fuel quality issues and engine temp. 2c
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Old Sep 8th, 2006, 2:13 pm   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynfink
OK Dave I was writing the last as you must been typing yours.

I agree, close loop rocks. now if only we could make the o2 sensor last..

BtW the cars I'm referring to are a 94 Cobra (5.0, My son's) and a 99 Cobra (32v 4.6, mine)
Interestingly, the head of the Ford project I described in the post above was one of the discoverers of the ceramic detector used in the O2 sensors.

At the Ford research labs, the Automotive power train (engine) engineers had to run a test batch of EFI/ECU "map" chips through a new supplier chain. All the EPA data wasn't developed yet. So, they pulled a parameter set for -more power- and ran it through the test cycle. Nodody'd ever own up to it, but if it had been me one of 'em would have been saved for my car.

Ford sold the company I was with in 1991. So my last Mustang was a '91 5.0 LX. I sold it in '93 and went into old Ford Flatheads, one of which I still have--thus the v8dave. There were several successful adaptations of the Ford 5.0 EFI system (computers, wiring, injectors, sensors) to some Bonneville racer Flathead Ford V8 engines. Worked quite well until the Bonneville Tech committee decided the vintage class engines rules meant vintage class through and through. And, not just the block being vintage.
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Old Sep 8th, 2006, 9:06 pm   #8 (permalink)
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2006 Closed-loop on the ST3

Interesting thread. Thanks, guys for posting the info. I still have a few thoughts on the '06 ST3 system. I read Adam Wade's book, Motorcycle Fuel Injection, in which he states that in every motorcycle using a closed-loop system the closed-loop portion of the system operates only during low throttle applications, "cruise" mode. Until that time, while the motor is accelerating, it is working on predetermined maps. The injection systems in cars may work differently. Wade says that the systems used in cars are more advanced than those used in motorcycles. If he is correct it would seem that changes to the motor may require changes to the maps for "best running". Concerning the closed-loop mode it is likely that the factory is using Lambda=1 (stoichiometric ratio) 14.7 to 1 in which all fuel is burned in order to have an environmentally clean motor. They run clean and get great gas mileage but they surge a bit as well. If we can find a way to add a little more fuel to richen up the closed-loop mode the bike would run nicer.

I'm a newcomer to Ducati. I have owned my '06 ST3s for about 3 weeks. I also own a Yamaha FJR1300 which has a similar closed- loop injection system. The closed-loop mode can be adjusted by entering the programing mode for each cylinder and raising the target number, which by the way, is different for each cylinder. Yamaha does not provide this information to owners. It became available through the FJR owner's website.

Has anybody done any tuning on this system that they can share with us?

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Old Sep 12th, 2006, 9:12 am   #9 (permalink)
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This is a great thread - the most information yet on understanding the EFI issues with the '06 ST3. Thanks for posting this.

I had my month-old ST3s in at AMS Dallas for the 600-mile service and they put it through a "dyno tune". It had run smoothly enough before, but seems better now and pulls clean from 3000 rpm all the way up. I was not sure what was actually adjusted, though. Is it that the target air/fuel ratio can be modified? Or is the open-loop segment of operation being adjusted, or maybe both?

-Doug
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Old Sep 12th, 2006, 9:12 pm   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug-b
This is a great thread - the most information yet on understanding the EFI issues with the '06 ST3. Thanks for posting this.

I had my month-old ST3s in at AMS Dallas for the 600-mile service and they put it through a "dyno tune". It had run smoothly enough before, but seems better now and pulls clean from 3000 rpm all the way up. I was not sure what was actually adjusted, though. Is it that the target air/fuel ratio can be modified? Or is the open-loop segment of operation being adjusted, or maybe both?

-Doug
Different manufacturers have different things adjustable in their EFI ECUs, some none. I do not know what is truly adjustable in the stock Ducati EFI. A guess is they have a target Air/Fuel ratio they can tweak a bit. But since this is a legal issue (Smog regulations) I doubt it can be moved very far. One thing adjustable on most EFI systems is the idle speed. But all these are hidden under seals so they can tell if they've been tampered with.

All EFI ECU units do have a map in memory containing the Closed Loop paramenters and target Air/Fuel maps. For out and out racing, you'll eventually see some software tuner release a new replacement map for these and it'll be an intercept (like a Commander) type of unit or a replacement ROM for the ECU. Likely, you'll have to provide an exchange ECU to get the new map as now-a-days the ROMs are soldered on the ECU mother board--to keep guys like you and me from easily changing the strategy, or at least make it expensive to do so.
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