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1199 TPS sensor not indicating WFO

6K views 10 replies 4 participants last post by  smkr104 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone,

I just got back from a race weekend and decided to have a look at the data collected by my AIM logger. One thing I saw that was kind of interesting was that my TPS never showed higher than 80% open. I looked at my grip position sensor and saw several occasions where the grip position was 100% open for several seconds, but the TPS only showed 80%.

One of my racer buddies suggested it might be an issue with the ECU not being programmed for my Dunlop tires. I went back and analyzed my front vs rear wheel speed and found there's about a 10-15mph delta between front and rear at high speeds. I believe this is due to the shorter profile of the Dunlops compared to the Pirelli's. Could this be messing with the DTC and TPS and causing this issue? Or, is this not even an issue and just expected behavior of the TPS system?

My race mode settings were EBC: 2, ABS: 2, DTC: 3, ENG: 195Hi

There was no DTC intervention during the times I was WFO and the TPS was flatlined at 80% so that makes me think it might not be related.

Here are some pics of the output from my data logger:

DTC, TPS, and Grip Position:



Front Wheel Speed, Rear Wheel Speed, TPS, and Grip Position:



Looking back, the TPS was never aligning with Grip position regardless of percent open the grip was.

One final note is I'm also using TuneBoy tune with the linear torque map applied. I know that's going to make the grip and tps not necessarily align, but it shouldn't keep the TPS from going to 100%.

Thoughts?
 
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#2 ·
Are you reading max 80 and max 100 from the same device? If not, one is probably giving you percent and the other is giving you tps in degrees measured at the butterflies

t_bare
 
#3 ·
I don't think you'll see 100% on TPS, even WOT. The TPS is dealing in voltage, .2 to .5 volts, the throttle plates go from closed to open and the two are related then converted for the ECU to work with.
Or something like that...
Have you checked the TPS to see what reading it shows? You could have a TPS going bad or one that just needs setting.

This gives a pretty good overview of checking TPS.
How to Test a Throttle Position Sensor | Enduring Automotive

Check this site out for more info directly related to Ducati.
BikeBoy.org
 
#5 ·
I don't think you'll see 100% on TPS, even WOT. The TPS is dealing in voltage, .2 to .5 volts, the throttle plates go from closed to open and the two are related then converted for the ECU to work with.
Or something like that...
Have you checked the TPS to see what reading it shows? You could have a TPS going bad or one that just needs setting.

This is difficult to check, because there are controls in the ECU that prevent you from going WOT while the bike is in neutral, clutch pulled in, gears 1-3, etc... To properly check you need to run the bike in 4th - 6th gear WOT. This is hard to do without a dyno or track. I'm hoping I can clear this up before my next race. I haven't checked to see what it will register with the key on and bike not running. I'll check that next. If the butterflies are going through their full range of motion, I'm not sure why the ECU would only be reporting 80% TPS.
 
#6 ·
I hope someone more knowledgeable than me will jump in...soon...
The reason to check the TPS electronically is to see if the TPS itself is reading a full range and show you what that full range is. If a TPS is going bad it might show up as having areas of missing or distorted readout.
If the ECU is receiving bad data it could cause of lot of other issues. There are tables that rely on other tables that rely on sensor data to select the next table, etc.
 
#9 ·
Thanks Jerry, I'm working on trying to check this. The bike runs fine, I'm just trying to make sure I'm getting full range of motion on my butterflies and there's not some other faction (like mismatched ECU / Tires) that is triggering the ECU to not fully open the throttle. Like I said before, there's is a large different in speed according to the ECU between the front and rear tires. I'm not sure if that's having any impact on the ECU or not.
 
#7 ·
I still think TPS is being expressed in Degrees and Grip in Percentage. 80-83 is about max for the butterflies and grip percentage is a variable controlled by fly by wire. When your bike is idling I bet your grip % is 0 and your TPS is between 3 and 4 degrees. But I have been wrong before...

t_bare
 
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#8 ·
If you right click on the images above and open in a new window they will be much larger and let you see the scale detail on the left. You can see the scale for both Hand and TPS is in % from 0 - 105. It doesn't make sense to me why they would express grip position and TPS position in different units. They are directly related.
 
#11 ·
Turn off traction control and make pull see if the data that is logged is different. It is not uncommon for fly by wire systems to have not 100% opening registered by aftermarket data loggers as the aftermarket systems can't keep up with the variables of all the manufacturers. Also the tuning on that bike is better achieved by torque based tuning and rather using the simple throttle position to rpm chart torque based is more multi demensional as it factors the horizontal and vertical manifold pressure sensors to adapt and control throttle servos. If the bike feels normal I wouldn't sweat it. Your friend is correct though with the tire profile's this will affect traction control the new 1299 have a feature for you to input the difference in tire profiles so that traction control can work properly per different profile tires.
 
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