Its Illegal(!!!!) to be in a pull/turn out on Angeles Crest/Hwy2!!!! - Ducati.ms

torqueflight · Dec 11th, 2010, 8:19 pm

You have been warned!!

I went on a bike ride today up in the Angeles Forest. On my way back from Newcombs Ranch I pull off into a turn out thats paved to rest before I headed back. There were a few work/service trucks driving in and out of the large pull out. So I decided to sit across the street on a concrete well surface where I thought it would be safer.

As Im sitting there, what appears to be a forest rangers truck pulls up, he sits there for a second and says over the PA, "well, you gonna come down from there?" I had no idea if he was talking to me. I thought what the hell I better walk over and see if he's talking to me or not (there were a few other trucks in the turn out).

So I walk up to my bike and he rolls down the window and says "let me see your license!" At this point he's talking to me like Im suspected of a crime. I know I haven't done anything remotely wrong, I wasn't even speeding earlier. So I say without an attitude contrary to what he's saying (people that know me, know Im not that way), "may I ask why", he says "just let me see your license", I respond "do you have reason to believe I have done something wrong?" he responds "just let me see your license and we wont have a problem!"

At this point Im kind of irritated. How can you just ask to see my ID with no reason given (he literally says in the video "I dont have to give you any reason"). So I just give him my license to get it over with, I was really tried and I didn't want to deal with the situation. I hand it to him and he rolls up his window. I can hear him call my plates in and is starting to write what I believe to be a ticket. So I take a few steps toward his window and he rolls it down. I ask him "are you writing me a ticket, and what is the ticket for?" he responds "just relax and will get this over with quicker." Mean while this guy has the worst attitude ever. So I walk back over to my bike. I figure its going to get pretty interesting so I put my phone on record and this is what I got.

Its all pretty clear in the video.

All I was trying to do was get some kind of information as to my he needs my ID.

On my way home I looked and couldn't find any signs at all.

So was I wrong or were my 4th amendment rights being violated?

Thanks for looking and any information given,
Matt

BTW theres 2 spots at the beginning where he asks for my cell number and how to pronounce my last name and I just took the sound out. And I cut out about a min of dead space where I was just standing there to shorten the video down.

Part 1

YouTube - Harassment by Forest Ranger?? Part 1

Part 2

YouTube - Harassment by Forest Ranger?? Part 2

cornerhungry · Dec 11th, 2010, 9:00 pm

Sounds like he's bored. Why does he need your drivers license to warn you that the forest is closed and that your not allowed to go hiking in the forest in you motorcycle boots.The fact that he didn't even get out of his truck to address the situation in the first place should say something. I'm also pretty sure the pavement wasn't put there by the forest rangers. At this point i would have started asking really stupid questions just so this guy could hear himself talk some more and make up more BS and tell how he saved the forest by not letting you or anyone else stop at a rest/scenic area

rant rant rant

i'll wait another couple days to head up that direction.
How was the road condition
was the bottom part or did you have to take the back way

torqueflight · Dec 11th, 2010, 9:26 pm

My thoughts exactly.

The crest going up from hwy 2 is still closed. You have to enter by the 7/11 on Ore Vista and take 9 mile. 9 miles just got done being repaved. Its a little sketchy. I washed out a little on a pile of gravel (didnt go down). Pretty scary. Its not bad, just dont ride full on.

Newcombs Ranch Actually closed. The owner got rid of all the workers and closed the place. Changed his mind a few days later and reopened. The bar guy was saying its day to day wether they are going to close down or not. So you better get up there, you never know if they will close for good or not.

Thanks

NSP · Dec 11th, 2010, 9:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by torqueflight

You have been warned!!

clearly you were in violation of this law that he had no problem known and printing out on this ticket plain as day......shame on you!!

if you did not violate fire closure recovery area NO.01-10-2005.....he would not have had to be so harsh with those "remarks" of "Title 36, Chap II, part 261, subpart B, SEC 261.53 Special Closures (E)!!!

Reminds me of the rugby match part of this skit (10 seconds into the clip).

Monty Python

NSP · Dec 11th, 2010, 9:58 pm

I don't think you had to give him your ID...Stop and Identify statues

From this site Frequently Asked Questions | How to Flex Your Rights During Police Encounters (copied below with video clip)

When do I have to show police my ID?
This is a tricky issue. As a general principle, citizens who are minding their own business are not obligated to "show their papers" to police. In fact, there is no law requiring citizens to carry identification of any kind.

Nonetheless, carrying an ID is generally required if you’re driving a vehicle or a passenger on a commercial airline. These requirements have been upheld on the premise that individuals who prefer not to carry ID can choose not to drive or fly.

YouTube - When do I have to show police my ID?

From here, ID laws only get more complicated. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to disclose their identity to police when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. Commonly known as "stop-and-identify" statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

As of 2008, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state's law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you're involved in criminal activity.

But how can you tell if an officer asking you to identify yourself has reasonable suspicion? Remember, police need reasonable suspicion to detain you. One way to tell if they have reasonable suspicion is to determine if you're free to go. You could do this by saying "Excuse me officer. Are you detaining me, or am I free to go?" If the officer says you’re free to go, leave immediately and refrain from answering any additional questions.

If you're detained, you'll have to decide whether withholding your identity is worth the possibility of arrest or a prolonged detention. In cases of mistaken identity, revealing who you are might help to resolve the situation quickly. On the other hand, if you're on parole in California, for example, revealing your identity could lead to a legal search. Knowing your state's laws can help you make the best choice.

Keep in mind that the officer's decision to detain you will not always hold up in court. Reasonable suspicion is a vague evidentiary standard, which lends itself to mistakes on the officer's part. If you're searched or arrested following an officer's ID request, always contact an attorney to discuss the incident and explore your legal options.

torqueflight · Dec 11th, 2010, 11:09 pm

Im curious if anyone knows if the turn outs are park property or are they part of the road.

Bill_Anderson · Dec 12th, 2010, 12:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by torqueflight

My thoughts exactly.

The crest going up from hwy 2 is still closed. You have to enter by the 7/11 on Ore Vista and take 9 mile. 9 miles just got done being repaved. Its a little sketchy. I washed out a little on a pile of gravel (didnt go down). Pretty scary. Its not bad, just dont ride full on.

Newcombs Ranch Actually closed. The owner got rid of all the workers and closed the place. Changed his mind a few days later and reopened. The bar guy was saying its day to day wether they are going to close down or not. So you better get up there, you never know if they will close for good or not.

Thanks

So was the OP inviolation for being parked on the shoulder or for being in a closed area (on the road or otherwise)? If the latter, were there any signs along the road marking the area as being closed?

torqueflight · Dec 12th, 2010, 12:58 am

No signs what so ever. I looked all up and down the road. I even asked him about it in the video and you get that response.

I was off to the side of the road on an open road. In a turn out / pull off / shoulder. You can see it in the top picture. The black asphalt is the open road. The part Im on is a paved pull off / shoulder.

Rob998 · Dec 12th, 2010, 6:52 am

Jesus, that guy likes the sound of his own voice!

Why he needed to see your ID & issue a warning ticket (is that the equivalent of a police caution?) is beyond me. He could have just came up to you & said: "Sorry mate, this area is closed at the moment, but such & such an area is open. Could you please move there if you need to take a break? Have a good day & ride safe."

Yet he spent 10 minutes yada-yada-ing & then issues a non-ticket for violation of some obscure order that there are no signs for & that you're meant to find out about for yourself before leaving home? What a crock of crap.

I reckon he'd had a slow day & needed to issue some tickets to justify his existence.

**scott** · Dec 12th, 2010, 11:22 am

I think you should call a supervisor about this or the main office in Washington and get someone that has some decent juice and a level head to have some dialog. It would be VERY interesting to hear what someone higher up in command has to say.
Here are some listings to help:
Angeles Crest Office
National Office