Looks as if this will be an interesting topic. Through some limited research I have begun to determine that Non-Glycol coolant offers no antifreeze protection.

So, did the Technical Director of Ducati misspeak, is he misinformed, misquoted, something lost in translation, or am I misinformed? ("Non-Glycol based antifreeze")

Furthermore, I am thinking that a coolant system flush would be in order to remove the existing coolant that has bonded/permeated the metals in contact with the cooling fluids. This, in my opinion, should be a chemical based flush. What product should be used? BG products are only available to trained Techs. Thinking most, if not all, Duc shops are not BG users? I wish to get the glycol based fluid out and get the new in but I wish to do the exchange once and right the first time.

Alas, if it is true that there is no Non-Glycol product with antifreeze qualities I will have trepidations concerning use, parking, and storage in sub-freezing conditions. As a four-season pilot this is yet another potential disappointment with regard to an awesome to ride yet a PITA cycle to maintain/get right/keep right.

I hear yet more $$$ leaving my pocket

 

And what is the brand name of new non-glycol antifreeze DUCATI recommends
Does anyone know

 

got my bulletin

AGIP permanent spezial

dave winston

 

What about the lubricating properties of glycol based antifreeze? Doesn't the coolant play a part in lubricating the waterpump internals?

 

All aqueous solutions have antifreeze properties. It really doesn't matter what solute you put into water. Now, some are better than others, and glycol is a very good antifreeze agent, but salt, sugar, anything that dissolves in water will simultaneously reduce the freezing point and raise the boiling point.
Trust me on this- I am a Professor of Chemistry.

 

In God I Trust.



Really?
Ice Water Non-Glycol Racing Coolant » Liquid Performance

Professor, If you know of a Non-Glycol coolant that has Antifreeze properties, in context of liquid-cooled engine application , please let us know.

 

So… does anyone know if Ducati is going to start replacing coolant for Multi owners as a no charge warranty item?
I think I'm going to call my dealership in the morning!

 

I'm willing to bet good money that they don't even know about an issue let alone a fix/change in the 2013 MTS. I'm thinking it will be a while before this information and change trickles down if ever. Ducati never issued a recall on the rear brakes either just a TSB which was an "as requested/bitched/moaned/complained" item. Same for the Ohlin shims. I don't think this will be much different.

 

How about AMSOIL -> AMSOIL - Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant (ANT)


Product Description
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant (ANT) is formulated to provide benefits far beyond those found in today’s conventional antifreeze and coolant products. This revolutionary formulation provides maximum antifreeze and cooling protection in the most extreme temperatures and operating conditions. And unlike conventional ethylene glycol-based products, which are highly toxic and even fatal, AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is formulated with propylene glycol. It is biodegradable and its low toxicity limits the threat to children, pets and wildlife.

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant provides even greater benefits:

Lasts Longer
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant contains a proprietary poly organic acid technology. It eliminates the need for supplemental coolant additives and recharging cooling systems. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant provides extended service life in all gasoline and diesel vehicles. It can be used for seven years or 250,000 miles in passenger cars, light-duty trucks, vans and recreational vehicles. It lasts seven years or 750,000 miles in over-the-road diesel trucks. Also for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and closed marine applications. AMSOIL Antifreeze and Engine Coolant lasts longer than conventional products.

Compatible With Other Fluids
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is dyed neutral yellow and is compatible with all ethylene and propylene antifreeze and coolant formulations on the market, including DEX-Cool®, Sierra® and Zerex®. It is also compatible with fully formulated diesel anti-freezes and other organic acid technology (OAT) and hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulations.

Stops Leaks
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant adheres to metal. It self-seals hairline cracks in welds and seams to prevent leaks, without additional stop-leak products or fibrous materials.

Helps Prevent Metallic Corrosion
Independent tests reveal AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant surpassed standards for metallic corrosion. It plates metal to protect even when exposed to acids and salt spray. Standard allowances for loss in aluminum and solder are less than 60 mg. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant lost 0 mg in aluminum and less than 6 mg in solder.

Standards for iron, steel, copper and brass allow a maximum loss of less than 20 mg. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant never exceeded a 3 mg loss in any of those metals in a testing period that was run for 10 weeks, three weeks longer than required tests.

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant (ANT)

• Formulated for heavy-duty and automotive applications
• Good for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and some marine applications
• Extended drain intervals

Up to seven years or 750,000 miles in Class 8 vehicles
Up to seven years or 250,000 miles in pleasure vehicles

• Universal compatibility
• Safe, biodegradable, non-toxic, non-polluting
• Aluminum engine block compatible
• Silicate- and Phosphate-Free

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant meets the following automotive and heavy-duty service specifications:

• ASTM D-6210 • ASTM D-3306
• ASTM D 6210-98

Composition by Weight:
Total glycols, > 92 percent;
Corrosion inhibitors and antifoamants,
= 3 percent; Water, < 5 percent

Boiling Point (sea level):
219° F at 40 percent concentration,
222° F at 50 percent,
225° F at 60 percent;
increase by 40° to 45° F if a 15 psi
radiator cap is used

 

Look again. This product is clearly a product that contains Glycol. We are looking for a Non-Glycol product.

 

Subscribed to figure out which coolant to use...

 

Oh, man I hope it doesn't turn out like an oil thread

 

So glycol is the issue yet for us living in areas that will regularly go under zero we need it's antifreeze properties. Great...

 

" We now recommend a non-glycol anti-freeze for all existing Testastretta engines" appears to me to be a very simplistic statement to what may be a complex issue. As I understand it, this product has been used universally not just as an anti-freeze, but anti-corrosion product for a long time. More specifically, the Testastretta engine has been in production for more than 10 years; whereas the motor may have some accepted design flaws, head failure caused by corrosion is not something that I've seen on the horizon. My 2006 machine has yet to develop a leak I could have used a but now my anxiety levels are rising.
I think this calls for an in-depth please explain.

 

Pretty sure engine ice is glycol free, I've used it for years in other bikes. I'll be looking into the official recommendation as well. I'm sure it will be "Ducati" branded.

 

I Am Certain.



F.A.Q
Scroll down to and click on "Safety and Toxicity Information". EngineIce has Propylene Glycol.

 

Excuse me but unless I'm missing something here, and if I am I apologize, but everyone here seems to be focused on this head issue being a freezing related problem more so than corrosion - if you read reports from those who've experienced the head failure, all cases are a breakdown of metals...

Glycol does lower the freezing point of water, but it also inhibits rust and scale build up resulting in corrosion prevention. Some glycols are suitable for use in alloy blocks or heads, while some aren't.

I personally believe we need to understand the metalourgial properties of the glycol Ducati currently reccomends and compare this to other alloy compatible glycols, or glycol substitutes and forget about ambiant temps, then address temps

 

From the information I have to this point, the Glycol product is the problem causing porous heads(according to Ducati). The quoted solution from Ducati is a Non-Glycol coolant. I to this point have yet to find any Non-Glycol product that offers freeze protection below 0C/32F.

If one operates and stores their Testastretta in a warmer climate the subject is a non-issue. For those operators in a more frigid locale a antifreeze solution is an issue in need of resolution. In other words the porous head (Glycol) issue is resolved by creating a potential (Non-Glycol) freeze issue unless anyone knows of a Non-Glycol solution with antifreeze properties.

 

From that Amsoil spiel:

Stops Leaks
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant adheres to metal. It self-seals hairline cracks in welds and seams to prevent leaks, without additional stop-leak products or fibrous materials.

Now, call me a pot stirrer, but I wonder if they're using this as a cheap way of reducing the incidence of head replacements due to porosity? It's clearly a manufacturing flaw, but perhaps the right chemicals can reduce the number of claims?

:think:

 

I haven't yet heard that Ducati has endorsed any particular brand of coolant other than a Non-Glycol coolant. (disregard. just read above post)

Amsoil Antifreeze is a Glycol product. Yes, Amsoil antifreeze is purportedly a self-sealing product. I do not wish to have a product that seals damage. I wish to prevent potential damage before it happens.

Analogy; One could put a product like Bars Leak or even a cracked egg in their coolant to stop a leak in the short term. These things may get one home or to the nearest garage, but anyone who has used these solutions should know it is a short-term fix.

 

Was at my Ducati dealer and yes they wil start a sort of Service Bulletin to replace the coolant.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Motorcycle.com Free App

 

That is quite the impressive list!

 

straight from TSB 12-003
Coolant
AGIP PERMANENT SPEZIAL 1-liter container part # 90130011B

Ducati has decided to implement a new engine coolant type. The product - AGIP PERMANENT
SPEZIAL - has been tested under all use conditions and outperforms the previous coolant. The
Multistrada 1200 is the first model implementing this product and all other bikes will follow. It was
chosen due to the high average mileage covered by Owners of this motorcycle. Ducati requires it’s
dealers to replace the coolant on all M.Y. 2010, M.Y. 2011 and M.Y. 2012 Multistrada 1200s free of
charge to the Owner (for both coolant and labor).
The innovative features of this product provide improved protection for all parts contacting it. This coolant is
easily recognizable by its pink color, it is pre-diluted and ready for use, and it must be changed every 48
months or 30,000 miles/ 48,000 km.
Affected VIN range requiring application of the technical solution
AFFECTED VINS
COUNTRY VERSION From frame no. To frame no.
USA, CDN, MEX ZDM12BLW4AB000023 ZDM12BLW4CB021022

CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION
 All final customers will be notified by Ducati via e-mail (if DMH has their address) or via postal service
and they will contact you to schedule the appointment
This update operation is valid up to 31 December 2013. After this date it will no longer be
possible to view the operation and claim the reimbursement.



That above should answer some of your questions and for others create more questions so dont shoot the messenger...

 

The
Multistrada 1200 is the first model implementing this product and all other bikes will follow. It was
chosen due to the high average mileage covered by Owners of this motorcycle. Ducati requires it’s
dealers to replace the coolant on all M.Y. 2010, M.Y. 2011 and M.Y. 2012 Multistrada 1200s free of
charge to the Owner (for both coolant and labor).

So let me be brief .... they produce a world class sports touring bike for all occasions , not just a garage queen , and have found that the owners want to ride them as it was designed ....

:think:

im probably one of the lucky ones as my bike only has 3-4000k on it since both heads were replaced .....

 

Enter the Latest Update Fron Ducati.

http://www.eni-q5.com/fileadmin/FILES/novi_pdf-ji__sep.2007_/Permanent_Spezial.pdf

So much for the Non-Glycol solution......

Perhaps it will also fix the rear brake:crazy:

 

Now Ducati here (Malaysia/ Singapore) say Italy will be shipping suitable stuff.....they also say they have been recommending:

Eni AGIP Coolant Permanent Special Spezial Red Case ACPSL | eBay

Now this has a part number and the name 'red case', which the one which clearly is Glycol based (which FulTank mentions) does not.

I dont have time to search spec sheets now but maybe they the 'Red case' is non-gylcol?

 

Bit of further input copied from another forum:

"You guys need to get your heads around the difference between Ethylene Glycol (conventional base for anti-freeze, not legal for road racing) and Propylene Glycol (base for Engine Ice, Amsoil Propylene Glycol AF and a number of others) calling all anti-freeze glycol is a misnomer.

Propylene Glycol based coolants are 100% legal for MNZ road race events (I have a letter from them to prove it) and coolants using this base have all the lubricating and anti corrosion properties of conventional anti-freeze without all the toxic side effects. Propylene Glycol is safe enough to drink.....if you were keen enough. Maxima Cool Aide is totally glycol free according to their literature though it's hard to find what it is actually based on (though the MSDS sheets state that it has toxic ingredients) so not sure of it's legality for road racing.

Anti-freeze is also a bit misleading as the main requirement these days is more as an anti corrosion agent due to most modern engines having a mix of different metals making them prone to corrosion from electrolysis etc.
Though of course it still acts as an anti-freeze agent and also as an anti-boil agent."

So it seems we (and Ducati) are being a bit over-simplistic to simply say keep away from 'glycol'. There do seem to a few 'non-glycol' coolants...BUT...the main question is do they have the corrosion inhibiting and the lubricating qualities we all need, (otherwise we are just going to get different problems), and we still have no answer for the guys who live sub-zero. Nick

 

Of interest (to me anyhow) is that my last alloy head V8 had "pink" coolant. I wonder if it was the good stuff? Those engines live for ever.

 

I'm not sure how to tell the order of the VIN numbers but mine is ZDM12BLW2. Mine is a 2012 so it seems weird that it is a lower number than the ones impacted by this.

 

"5cb" or 2cb doesnt matter what matters is that it starts at #000023 and ends near 021022 so that tells me that there are 21000 of these bikes in the north american market, this includes Mexico and Canada and USA

the dealers were autoshipped 12 liters of this new coolant but havent received any as of Friday the 21st and I do know my dealer ordered 20 more liters for stock.

 

Mine is within the VIN range and is going in for the 7500 mile service this week (purchased in May). I haven't seem even a tiny drop in level but on cold mornings it does blow white smoke/steam for a few minutes. My wife called me a moron when she saw me sniffing it this morning. Smelled like gas...

 

For your information

The coolant that is currently under use is the Shell advance – Glycoshell according to the owner manual see bellow specs

http://www.corriboil.com/uploads/documents/Glycoshell (Pdf).pdf

The coolant Ducati recommends now is AGIP PERMANENT SPEZIAL
I couldn’t find any spec
I found only that the boiling point of Agip coolant is about 110 c

http://www.eni-q5.com/fileadmin/FILES/novi_pdf-ji__sep.2007_/Permanent_Spezial.pdf

If this is right I thing we might have overheat problems

 

Surely that's the boiling point at standard atmospheric pressure? In a pressurised system the BP would be higher (I hope!)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Motorcycle.com Free App

 

i hope too

 

I might do the radiator flush myself.

$20 for the coolant
and an hour of my time

vs

an hour ride to the dealership
4 hour wait while they replace the coolant
and an hour ride home

 

Dang mine is in the VIN range.

Think I can just wait a couple months until it's due for new tires and get it all done at once? I'll only have about 4k miles on it by then.