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Did you break your bike in with Synthetic or Non-Synthetic Oil?

  • Synthetic

    Votes: 34 63.0%
  • Non-Synthetic

    Votes: 20 37.0%

Synthetic or Non-Synthetic for Break-In

7K views 52 replies 22 participants last post by  VisitorQ 
#1 ·
I know this has been talked about over and over again but I wanted to take a poll on the matter as I am still deciding on what will be best for my 1098.

Thanks.
Jason
 
#2 ·
VisitorQ said:
I know this has been talked about over and over again but I wanted to take a poll on the matter as I am still deciding on what will be best for my 1098.

Thanks.
Jason
You don't have the bike yet and your being anal already :p
 
#6 · (Edited)
853MACHINE said:
It is going to be full of fluids when you get it so use the oil that is in it.
That oil is Synthetic as far as I know.

Nightshade said:
Why is this an issue? Ducati puts oil in it for break-in so this shouldn't even be a consideration.
Because I was told that synthetic oil was too slick and not good for ring seal.

cachee0 said:
You don't have the bike yet and your being anal already :p
I take extremely good care of the stuff I own (ask anyone who knows me). I only want what is best for the bike. I want to break it in the correct way, yeilding the most HP from the motor and best/ proper ring seal.

I mean I know this topic has been beat into the ground so I figured I would stick up a poll so people could just click rather than discuss what has already been talked about.

I am not sure how many other bikes come with synthetic oil in them but Ducati is the first I have heard of...

Jason
 
#7 ·
You again???:) Are you even going to be satisfied with the answer this time when it's overwhelming to use synthetic, or are you going to start something else until you get the answer you want?? Man, I bet this is going to drive you completely BONKERS if it ends up being 50/50!!:) :)
 
#8 ·
The oil that comes stock from the dealer is fully synn already...
 
#9 ·
I just purchased a new '06 ST3, waiting for it to be shipped as we speak. When I get it I am going to drain the oil, replace the filter and fill it with 10W-40 Valvoline non-synthetic.

I am then going to break it in per mototune's recommendation, the street method. After 20 miles I will drain the oil and replace the filter with the same as above and probably run that for 1,000 to 1,500 miles. From that point forward I will use a synthetic but same weight, preferable for twins.

I have never done it like this before so this is a first. I really won't know if its better than the "recommended" method but if it blows up, burns oil, runs bad etc I will post it here.

This is an endless debate with great points on both sides. Since I have tried the other approach (with no adverse results that I know of) I want to try this approach. I typically have not kept my bikes very long but that has changed so I don't have a good long history with the recommended break in. It was a Honda though and I personally think they are the best built bikes in the world, just everyone has one.

For what its worth, this will be my approach. Hell it might be wrong but damit I will do something.
 
#10 ·
galaxy said:
You again???:) Are you even going to be satisfied with the answer this time when it's overwhelming to use synthetic, or are you going to start something else until you get the answer you want?? Man, I bet this is going to drive you completely BONKERS if it ends up being 50/50!!:) :)
Yeah I all know we want to hear what we want. I am just trying to make sure ya know and that is why I put the poll. Like I said, to just get a strait yes or no answer so I would not get blasted for touching this topic again. =]

Jason
 
#11 ·
Pyrate said:
I just purchased a new '06 ST3, waiting for it to be shipped as we speak. When I get it I am going to drain the oil, replace the filter and fill it with 10W-40 Valvoline non-synthetic.

I am then going to break it in per mototune's recommendation, the street method. After 20 miles I will drain the oil and replace the filter with the same as above and probably run that for 1,000 to 1,500 miles. From that point forward I will use a synthetic but same weight, preferable for twins.

I have never done it like this before so this is a first. I really won't know if its better than the "recommended" method but if it blows up, burns oil, runs bad etc I will post it here.

This is an endless debate with great points on both sides. Since I have tried the other approach (with no adverse results that I know of) I want to try this approach. I typically have not kept my bikes very long but that has changed so I don't have a good long history with the recommended break in. It was a Honda though and I personally think they are the best built bikes in the world, just everyone has one.

For what its worth, this will be my approach. Hell it might be wrong but damit I will do something.
This is exactly how I broke in my Honda, 0 problems but the thing that get's me with Ducati is they ship with synthetic oil, Honda's don't. If Ducati shipped with non-synthetic oil I would not even think twice about this subject and break the bike in just like I did with my Honda... Exactly the method you posted above.

Jason
 
#13 ·
Ok I go by the school of thought of breaking a motor in with regular oil...but WHY ON EARTH would ducati ship all the new 1098's with synthetic if it was in question?!!! They have TONS of money tied up in this bike, how well it does, it's longevity. Why would they risk damage to the bike or break in problems by putting MORE expensive oil in instead of regular oil?! Modern motorcycle and car engines for that matter are made of completely different metals, alloys...etc...and have coatings that didn't exist even 2 years ago. Using regular oil to break in an engine is a leftover trend from old cast iron block engines and whatnot. The ONLY reason I still break motors in with regular oil is because it's cheaper. If i'm only using it to flush out the assembly lube and whatnot I'm not using 9 dollar a quart oil. The rings will seat fine, the bearings will seat just fine with synthetic oil.

Despite whether you agree with my engine break in logic as far as modern engines...at the least I'm hoping people can understand that Ducati wouldn't risk shipping their brand new bike to use synthetic oil from the get go. My M3 came with synthetic from the factory, I race it HARD and have never used anything but synthetic from the get go...no issues. When I tore the engine down to put higher comp pistons in at 90k, everything still looked brand spanking new...So do what you want, but realize that this poll is probably just going to yield a fairly even spread on both sides...I'd stick with the factory stuff rather than risk voiding a warrantee by putting regular oil in it.

Ok i'm finished...sorry i'll go now lol
 
#15 ·
ColinMc said:
Ok I go by the school of thought of breaking a motor in with regular oil...but WHY ON EARTH would ducati ship all the new 1098's with synthetic if it was in question?!!! They have TONS of money tied up in this bike, how well it does, it's longevity. Why would they risk damage to the bike or break in problems by putting MORE expensive oil in instead of regular oil?! Modern motorcycle and car engines for that matter are made of completely different metals, alloys...etc...and have coatings that didn't exist even 2 years ago. Using regular oil to break in an engine is a leftover trend from old cast iron block engines and whatnot. The ONLY reason I still break motors in with regular oil is because it's cheaper. If i'm only using it to flush out the assembly lube and whatnot I'm not using 9 dollar a quart oil. The rings will seat fine, the bearings will seat just fine with synthetic oil.

Despite whether you agree with my engine break in logic as far as modern engines...at the least I'm hoping people can understand that Ducati wouldn't risk shipping their brand new bike to use synthetic oil from the get go. My M3 came with synthetic from the factory, I race it HARD and have never used anything but synthetic from the get go...no issues. When I tore the engine down to put higher comp pistons in at 90k, everything still looked brand spanking new...So do what you want, but realize that this poll is probably just going to yield a fairly even spread on both sides...I'd stick with the factory stuff rather than risk voiding a warrantee by putting regular oil in it.

Ok i'm finished...sorry i'll go now lol
Beautiful...Perfect write up.
 
#16 ·
ColinMc said:
Ok I go by the school of thought of breaking a motor in with regular oil...but WHY ON EARTH would ducati ship all the new 1098's with synthetic if it was in question?!!! They have TONS of money tied up in this bike, how well it does, it's longevity. Why would they risk damage to the bike or break in problems by putting MORE expensive oil in instead of regular oil?! Modern motorcycle and car engines for that matter are made of completely different metals, alloys...etc...and have coatings that didn't exist even 2 years ago. Using regular oil to break in an engine is a leftover trend from old cast iron block engines and whatnot. The ONLY reason I still break motors in with regular oil is because it's cheaper. If i'm only using it to flush out the assembly lube and whatnot I'm not using 9 dollar a quart oil. The rings will seat fine, the bearings will seat just fine with synthetic oil.

Despite whether you agree with my engine break in logic as far as modern engines...at the least I'm hoping people can understand that Ducati wouldn't risk shipping their brand new bike to use synthetic oil from the get go. My M3 came with synthetic from the factory, I race it HARD and have never used anything but synthetic from the get go...no issues. When I tore the engine down to put higher comp pistons in at 90k, everything still looked brand spanking new...So do what you want, but realize that this poll is probably just going to yield a fairly even spread on both sides...I'd stick with the factory stuff rather than risk voiding a warrantee by putting regular oil in it.

Ok i'm finished...sorry i'll go now lol
I hear what you are saying but just because Ducati ships it with whatever, doesn't mean it is the best. Take for instance Anti-Freeze vs. Engine Ice, totally different subject but if Engine Ice is better than regular anti-freeze (IMO) why wouldn’t Ducati ship their bikes with it in it?

Just because the bike ships with full synthetic in the motor does mean it is the absolute best for break-in' but I do see your point with things possibly changing in the last year as far as oil and construction of engines. Maybe this subject does not matter as much now as it did a few yers back?

Jason
 
#17 ·
VisitorQ said:
I hear what you are saying but just because Ducati ships it with whatever, doesn't mean it is the best. Take for instance Anti-Freeze vs. Engine Ice, totally different subject but if Engine Ice is better than regular anti-freeze (IMO) why wouldn’t Ducati ship their bikes with it in it?


Jason
Ummmmm, maybe because not everyone lives in Florida or Southern California??? Just a guess!
 
#18 ·
ColinMc said:
Ok I go by the school of thought of breaking a motor in with regular oil...but WHY ON EARTH would ducati ship all the new 1098's with synthetic if it was in question?!!! They have TONS of money tied up in this bike, how well it does, it's longevity. Why would they risk damage to the bike or break in problems by putting MORE expensive oil in instead of regular oil?! Modern motorcycle and car engines for that matter are made of completely different metals, alloys...etc...and have coatings that didn't exist even 2 years ago. Using regular oil to break in an engine is a leftover trend from old cast iron block engines and whatnot. The ONLY reason I still break motors in with regular oil is because it's cheaper. If i'm only using it to flush out the assembly lube and whatnot I'm not using 9 dollar a quart oil. The rings will seat fine, the bearings will seat just fine with synthetic oil.

Despite whether you agree with my engine break in logic as far as modern engines...at the least I'm hoping people can understand that Ducati wouldn't risk shipping their brand new bike to use synthetic oil from the get go. My M3 came with synthetic from the factory, I race it HARD and have never used anything but synthetic from the get go...no issues. When I tore the engine down to put higher comp pistons in at 90k, everything still looked brand spanking new...So do what you want, but realize that this poll is probably just going to yield a fairly even spread on both sides...I'd stick with the factory stuff rather than risk voiding a warrantee by putting regular oil in it.

Ok i'm finished...sorry i'll go now lol
+1
I couldn't have put it better myself.
 
#19 · (Edited)
ehhh, OK, I'll ask the obvious question - how do we KNOW the 1098 comes with synth? Has someone actually sent it off for tests to the lab, or do we have positive confirmation from a dealer prep bulletin? (The fact that the manual MAY specify synth (does it? - that'd be a first that I know of!!) - does not in itself mean that they put synth in the bike!!! ;)

EDIT: Just checked the owners manual - it does indeed specify Shell Advance Ultra 4 (which is a synth). Of course, this is typically Ducati, in that a MAJOR market like the USA does not even HAVE this oil :) - and they don't specify that you have to use a synthetic. They do specify the usual oil viscosity ranges for the appropriate temps you ride in, which is fair and normal.

PS. I'd personally switch the oil to dino ASAP and do the Brock Davidson break-in routine http://www.dragbike.com/news/01-99/drbrock-0199.htm which I know results in some very good blowby numbers in leakdown tests - better than 2-3% in many cases. This means the rings are sealing very well, and compression is up there, and there's no leakage/blowby to reduce power. Strong running bikes! YMMV.
 
#20 ·
There are two rationals on the Dino vs Syn for break in. Both arguments have already been brought up. I personally will break in my 853 with Dino. Then straight to Mobil-1 full syn.

On the other hand I had a friend visit the Porsche factory and every Porsche at the completion of the assembly line gets started, reved and burns rubber coming out the door on its way to the warehouse. My friend asked one of the mechanics why the run it so hard right off the factory line. He said our engines are built with such tight tolerances and quality control. The motor can handle it and high revs breaks it in properly. Porsche, Cadillac, Viper, Vettes and many other high end cars are all factory filled with Mobil-1 Full Syn.

Food for thought. Since custom motors, such as my 853, have much tighter tolerances than originally built at the factory.
 
#22 ·
853MACHINE said:
It is going to be full of fluids when you get it so use the oil that is in it.
Three posts in and you've got your answer.

Guess what? The oil Ducati puts in the motor is great for break in. Ride it for 1000 miles flogging it mecilessly, change the oil to whatever super duper brand you think will save the world, flog it for 5000 miles more. Repeat as necessary.

Really...a search is the answer to your prayers. I thought we've talked about this?

Here's a video you really need to watch:

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
 
#23 ·
Chuckracer said:
Three posts in and you've got your answer.

Guess what? The oil Ducati puts in the motor is great for break in. Ride it for 1000 miles flogging it mecilessly, change the oil to whatever super duper brand you think will save the world, flog it for 5000 miles more. Repeat as necessary.

Really...a search is the answer to your prayers. I thought we've talked about this?

Here's a video you really need to watch:

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
:D
 
#24 ·
Borrowed from Shazaam! on Speedzilla.


(This is the best answer to the break-in question that I've read from a trusted source)

Break-in: It's New, It's Pristine, How Long Do You Have To Baby It?

By Kevin Cameron

Break-in is the final finishing operation in manufacturing an engine - and you, the owner of a new bike, perform it. At the factory, the bike builder hones the cylinder walls to a fine finish, grinds cams and tappets to accurate, smooth profiles, and makes con-rod journals to high standards of roundness and accuracy. But even with all this, metal surfaces remain microscopically rough, consisting of tiny peaks and valleys. When you start a new engine, these surfaces must slide over each other; wherever the peaks stick up higher than the local oil film thickness, metal hits metal, welds momentarily from the intense local pressure, and then tears away. The oil sweeps a residue of particles away, carrying them to sump and filter. Some metal is simply pushed into shape, protected by oil additives; it deforms physically rather than being welded and torn.

Throughout the engine, this process works, quickly at first then more slowly as break-in proceeds. Once the high spots are knocked or pushed down, the roughness of the surfaces no longer sticks above the oil films. Piston rings have filed themselves into a fine fit to their cylinders. Bearings spin without metal-to-metal contact on full oil films. Break-in is complete.

This process can have three possible outcomes:

(1) If the break-in begins at high RPM and heavy throttle, the process may generate more heat and metal debris than the system can handle. Then, the result is destruction of contact surfaces in some parts of the engine.

(2) If the break-in begins at a lower energy level and builds up gradually to higher rev's and throttle, the washing action of the oil will keep up with the generation of wear particles, and the surfaces will bed into each other in such a way that the oil film can carry the load.

(3) The third possibility is that break-in will fail - usually as a result of such light-duty operation that parts are not loaded together forcefully enough to bed into one another. Rings glaze and fail to seal. The engine never delivers full power. Fortunately, this is rare where production machines are concerned.

Factory break-in procedures are designed to steer the middle course - not so vigorous as to damage surfaces, not so timid as to have no results at all. Generally, recommended break-in consists of operation at a variety of moderate speeds, alternating with no-load coasting. The idea behind this is that firm part-throttle operation for a period puts a load on bearings and other parts, forcing their surfaces together, so they can polish each other to a fine fit. No-throttle coasting removes much of the load, allowing the oil system to flush away the wear particles. Gradually increasing the load (higher RPM and throttle) allows the bedding-in process to build up over time, rather than applying a possibly damaging load right at first.

Rob Muzzy of Kawasaki notes: "It won't break-in until you really run it hard", noting that, "With today's thin, low friction rings, you can't get the parts to reach each other without a good load." He says his team breaks in its race engines in much the same manner as for the street: 30 to 60 minutes of moderate operation on the dyno, just in case there are some really rough areas, followed by several pulls (that is, hard acceleration across the powerband). He says that only by the third pull does the engine begin to show its real power.

For a street machine owner, this dyno break-in translates to a period of moderate operation (Muzzy mentions 500 miles) followed by some hard acceleration. Sustained, high-speed operation is not a good idea because it provides no wash time at low load, during which the oil system can flush away any wear particles.

Once the break-in mileage has elapsed, the oil and filter are changed to remove the metal-loaded oil, and the (possibly) heavily loaded filter.

Break-in lore and myths. You often hear something like this: "Break it in fast and it will be fast, break it in slow and it will be slow." There is some truth here because break-in has to apply enough load to force the parts into mutual machining action. If you timidly try to break it in at very low speed and almost zero throttle, you may never force the piston rings to shave themselves into good contact with the cylinder walls. That will result in a poor seal - and poor performance. But the "break in it fast" part of the saying seems to imply that the faster you push during break-in, the faster your engine will be as a result. Not so. If you push too hard too soon, the parts will score and scuff each other because the heat generated will be enough to destroy the oil film locally. A scuffed ring doesn't seal.

Many engine builders agree that you should not try to break-in an engine on synthetic oil. If the oil film is too good, it will support even parts with extensive surface roughness. Only a small amount of local bedding-in may occur on the piston rings, resulting in a poor fit (glazing) that improves only very slowly over time. Manufacturers of synthetic oil are almost unanimous in their insistence that this is not so and that break-in is normal with their excellent products. But too many engineers and tuners have seen break-in either fail or take too long on synthetics for this to be the entire truth. Muzzy says that his team breaks-in engines on mineral oil and will run the fresh engine the entire first day at the track on the break-in oil, before draining and replacing it with racing synthetic.

Synthetic oils are frequently chosen for racing use because low viscosities can be used that will cut friction losses by a small amount. This may be worth the trouble on the racetrack, but for street use, the choice between mineral oil and synthetic is yours. Street engines run well with mineral or synthetic oil of the recommended viscosity.

Your important decision will be to follow a reasonable break-in procedure. Treat your engine with respect for its first 500 to 1000 miles, and it'll repay you by delivering its best possible performance.
 
#26 ·
VisitorQ said:
With the poll split as much as it is, I think I would rather the Non-Synthetic route just because I think it could only do more good than bad. I mean what is the worst case, I waste money on oil.

Jason
See...exactly what I said to begin with!! The comments here are almost 50/50 (ball park) but the poll results are 53% vs 47% in favor of synthetic, and you are still going against the results you asked for! I told you you had your mind made up before you started this crap. In the end though, there's no such thing as wasting money on our bikes!
 
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