Look what I got :D (Yes, surprising, another Ducati) - Ducati.ms

lior_baruch · Mar 13th, 2011, 2:13 pm

Hi,

Bought it several days ago from a guy that posted a pic on his facebook here in Israel, showing off the bike. I told him that it looks great and ask where and when can I see it, just for the show... the guy answered that it's been a while since he used it and he is thinking about selling it. That's when I moved to private messages, close on a price and the next morning I was there to pay and take it

There is a catch though... there is a problem with the papers of it, it's listed originally as '78 900 but in it's paper it's a '76 860 GTS, which as you can see by the picture, it's ain't. That means that that specific bike can't ever go back on the road, according to the local law, as it's original papers are none existence and the current are not really his...

The owner said that it's a 78 900SD, you can see that it got 6 bolts disks, bracket for a front fender/headlamp like the SSD and other things about it that makes me wander what it really was originally...

The total number of vintage Ducati's in Israel are very few, maybe 10-15, no more... most chances (99%) that the original papers for this one can't be found so it means that as I said it can't go back on the road legally... so I still wonder what to do with it.

In case you wonder, price was about $2,250 USD

Enough talking... pictures:

lior_baruch · Mar 13th, 2011, 2:13 pm

More pics:

lior_baruch · Mar 13th, 2011, 2:14 pm

Fairing bracket on a SD???

Ventodue · Mar 13th, 2011, 2:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lior_baruch

Fairing bracket on a SD???

Yes, Lior. As Marty said in your other thread, it's not unusual to see late SD Darmahs using the SSD frame. This is normally put down to Ducati using up old stock. (It appears that frames were bought in from Verlicchi in batches).

But a good find - and not a bad price, either!

Btw, frame and engine numbers help with dating. I begin to suspect that your bikes may be very late - can you let us know what the numbers are?

Ciao

Craig

Duccout · Mar 13th, 2011, 2:31 pm

Is the front wheel 16 inch? the wheels look like Oscams from a 750 F1, which were probably used to replace the original Speedlines, which would make it an early Darmah, but the forks look like they are from an earlier 750, with the black paint stripped off. I think that Darmahs all had polished forks.

lior_baruch · Mar 13th, 2011, 2:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duccout

Is the front wheel 16 inch? the wheels look like Oscams from a 750 F1, which were probably used to replace the original Speedlines, which would make it an early Darmah, but the forks look like they are from an earlier 750, with the black paint stripped off. I think that Darmahs all had polished forks.

They are 18 inch. I'm goggling as we speak to try to find from which bike are they

Yeah Craig, it looks like Ducati made the bikes so special that almost no 2 are the same, even if they didn't intend that it will be that way

Edit: it does look like the 18" Pantah 750 F1

Bevel-Heaven · Mar 13th, 2011, 5:58 pm

Hey Lior, those are 38mm Marzocchi forks, Oscam wheels from a pantah - maybe off alla azurra or other pantah. Seat is the late darmah type and as they don't interchange with the earlier type whale tail seats (frame mounts are completely different) - and it has the 4 hole headlight bracket as well as the rear master cylinder cutout in the right side cover (not the earlier 3 holes and more rearward mounting) it seems to be an 81 or later model. Please feel free to email me the engine and frame numbers which would help narrow things down further.

mizike77 · Mar 13th, 2011, 7:45 pm

No Kickstart......late Darmah..82?

lior_baruch · Mar 14th, 2011, 2:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevel-Heaven

Hey Lior, those are 38mm Marzocchi forks, Oscam wheels from a pantah - maybe off alla azurra or other pantah. Seat is the late darmah type and as they don't interchange with the earlier type whale tail seats (frame mounts are completely different) - and it has the 4 hole headlight bracket as well as the rear master cylinder cutout in the right side cover (not the earlier 3 holes and more rearward mounting) it seems to be an 81 or later model. Please feel free to email me the engine and frame numbers which would help narrow things down further.

There are 2 numbers plated... one is the original, second is the reason it can't be back on the road legally (taken from the papers of an other bike..) according to the local regulations...

Original numbers: DM860S*850753 (* - shape of a star)

The additional number plated, not original, so it seams: DGM13751OM (Hope I got it right... they didn't even stamp it in a perfect straight line

).

Those are numbers that were on the plate on the other side:

073(or 5)9.88.130

13716

Engine numbers: 850712 DM860

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizike77

No Kickstart......late Darmah..82?

As I said... looks like there is nothing to do between the papers of this bike that say that it's a 1976 860 GTS and the actual bike

By the way.. on which years and models there were both Kickstart AND an electric start, like I have in my other bike?

Thanks!

Lior.

Ventodue · Mar 14th, 2011, 9:14 am

Hi Lior,

Ok, let's see what we've got, using Ian Falloon as our guide ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lior_baruch

There are 2 numbers plated... one is the original, second is the reason it can't be back on the road legally (taken from the papers of an other bike..) according to the local regulations...

Original numbers: DM860S*850753 (* - shape of a star)

That is the frame number for a 1975 860GT/GTE. Numbers for this model started at 850001.

Notes:
1. NOT a GTS. GTS frame numbers start around 853000.
2. NOT a SD Darmah. Darmahs have a new frame numbering sequence, beginning 900001.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lior_baruch

The additional number plated, not original, so it seams: DGM13751OM

This is the correct homologation (= type approval) number for both the 860GT/GTE frame and the SD/SSD Darmah frame. It was issued by the Italian Ministry of Transport: "DGM" = Direzione Generale per la Motorizzazione. It should be on the bike - it was a legal requirement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lior_baruch

Engine numbers: 850712 DM860

Again, that is correct for an early 1975 860GT/GTE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lior_baruch

Those are numbers that were on the plate on the other side: (073(or 5)9.88.130) 13716

The "13716" is the homologation number for the Lafranconi silencers, as fitted to both 860 GT/GTEs and pre-1979 SD Darmahs. (It should read, "DM860S E3 9R-13716")

Quote:

Originally Posted by lior_baruch

As I said... looks like there is nothing to do between the papers of this bike that say that it's a 1976 860 GTS and the actual bike

Agree. The numbers are for a 1975 860 GT/GTE, which it clearly is not. As to date, it was very possibly not registered until 1976. Ian Falloon specifically makes the point that many of the 1360 860 GT/GTEs manufactured during 1975 remained unsold into 1976. And adds that "Some 860 GTEs were converted into 860 GTSs during 1976".

But I can offer no explanation for how it got to be what it is today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lior_baruch

By the way.. on which years and models there were both Kickstart AND an electric start, like I have in my other bike?

For the 860s: From January 1975, i.e. 5 months into the production year (remembering that the production year started in the September of the previous calendar year), all 860s came with both electric start + kickstart. (This is the model known as the 860 GTE)

For SD Darmahs: These originally appeared with both, then lost the kicker during 1980.

For SSD Darmahs: Never had a kicker.

(Phew!)

Ciao

Craig