Tuneboy questions, and yes I read the FAQ...

[L3stat]

Hi guys, I just got an 09 S recently, and have that <4k rpm fueling problem. I've done my fair share of searching and reading, just wanna get some feedback from the Tuneboy users here.

Bike is stock, except for the Termi slip-on kit and DP ECU. My considerations in choosing a solution are that modifications be kept to a minimum (or easily reversible), preferably no piggyback, and to retain all stock functions (DTC, immobiliser etc). Termis are not legal where I live, so the bike has to be returned to stock for an annual vehicle inspection. The goal is pretty much to solve the low end "bog", since the bike runs great above 4k rpm. A local dyno facility is available, but unfortunately not very highly regarded in terms of expertise.

Does the Tuneboy unit need to be attached to the bike all the time, or can I just unplug it after the initial setup?

While everyone seems to be after an open loop solution, can the Tuneboy be run in closed loop (retaining the O2 sensors and exhaust flap), but just modifying the fuel tables for optimal AFR? Since the bike functions well in closed loop (except for a lean map), there must be some merit to having the O2 sensors. One reason I wish to retain the O2 sensors is the annual inspection when everything has to be returned to stock. If I leave the sensors in and run OL, they will foul. But to have to swap the sensors will be a hassle, and the stock ECU will not function without them. Though that said, I could use Tuneboy to copy the map of the stock ECU and run OL, and hopefully with the stock exhaust I'll clear the emissions test.

Does the Tuneboy support multiple maps, and allow on the fly switching? Depending on where I ride, the baffles could be out or in. I read that the baffles shouldn't alter the fueling that much, but I guess this is a nice-to-have. Suppose if it supports 3 maps, I could have a stock ECU map, DP no baffles map and DP baffles in map, which saves one step for the annual inspection.

Thanks fellas...

[moperfserv]

The Tuneboy re-flashes the ECU, so it isn't a 'piggy-back' system.

It does have a check-box to turn off the closed-loop operation, so I assume you can turn it on as well as off.

Contrary to conventional wisdom and opinion, I don't think you need more than one good 'map'. You get your fuel mileage at part throttle and power at Wide-Open-Throttle, so one doesn't need to be changed to affect the other.
Why would you want one calibration that gets 30 MPG at cruise and another that gets 45 MPG in the same conditions? Why would you want a cal that runs your bike lean at WOT and another that gets all the power?

I hope you get my point. (The sarcasm is meant for everyone, not just leveled at this question)

Changing maps 'on-the-fly' might be helpful if you change your baffles 'on-the-fly' and since riding your bike backwards while working on a hot muffler, might be difficult, you can re-flash your ECU with the different calibration in the comfort of your garage when you change the baffles.

It looks like you can accomplish precisely what you want.

Doug

[PluckedDuc]

Originally Posted by L3stat

Hi guys, I just got an 09 S recently, and have that <4k rpm fueling problem. I've done my fair share of searching and reading, just wanna get some feedback from the Tuneboy users here.

Bike is stock, except for the Termi slip-on kit and DP ECU. My considerations in choosing a solution are that modifications be kept to a minimum (or easily reversible), preferably no piggyback, and to retain all stock functions (DTC, immobiliser etc). Termis are not legal where I live, so the bike has to be returned to stock for an annual vehicle inspection. The goal is pretty much to solve the low end "bog", since the bike runs great above 4k rpm. A local dyno facility is available, but unfortunately not very highly regarded in terms of expertise.

Does the Tuneboy unit need to be attached to the bike all the time, or can I just unplug it after the initial setup?

While everyone seems to be after an open loop solution, can the Tuneboy be run in closed loop (retaining the O2 sensors and exhaust flap), but just modifying the fuel tables for optimal AFR? Since the bike functions well in closed loop (except for a lean map), there must be some merit to having the O2 sensors. One reason I wish to retain the O2 sensors is the annual inspection when everything has to be returned to stock. If I leave the sensors in and run OL, they will foul. But to have to swap the sensors will be a hassle, and the stock ECU will not function without them. Though that said, I could use Tuneboy to copy the map of the stock ECU and run OL, and hopefully with the stock exhaust I'll clear the emissions test.

Does the Tuneboy support multiple maps, and allow on the fly switching? Depending on where I ride, the baffles could be out or in. I read that the baffles shouldn't alter the fueling that much, but I guess this is a nice-to-have. Suppose if it supports 3 maps, I could have a stock ECU map, DP no baffles map and DP baffles in map, which saves one step for the annual inspection.

Thanks fellas...

Hope I can clear up some confusion.

1. Stock ECU does run lean and slightly contributes to low end stumbling.

2. DP ECU does NOT run lean. You should find after 500kms that the end caps on the Termis will start to get brown because the fuel mix is rich, especially at idle. Many people complain about the smell of exhaust fumes when they switch from stock (CAT) cans to the (non-CAT) slip-ons.

So why is there still low rpm stumble? Because the closed loop implementation used on the SF. Narrow band O2 sensors seem to bounce the fuel mix between lean & rich. Disable the sensors and use a static map and you end up with better results.

I recently got a Redline flashed ECU installed and the difference is considerable. (I'll be writing up my experience here soon).

In your case, I suggest getting your ECU flashed with O2s disabled (choose your preferred option) for the smooth ride the SF can provide. Then when you have to go for your inspection, change out the Termis for the stock cans & stock ECU. Even running the Stock cans on the reflashed ECU shouldn't harm the bike if it's once a year and a short run.

[L3stat]

Originally Posted by moperfserv

Contrary to conventional wisdom and opinion, I don't think you need more than one good 'map'. You get your fuel mileage at part throttle and power at Wide-Open-Throttle, so one doesn't need to be changed to affect the other.

Why would you want one calibration that gets 30 MPG at cruise and another that gets 45 MPG in the same conditions? Why would you want a cal that runs your bike lean at WOT and another that gets all the power?

I hope you get my point. (The sarcasm is meant for everyone, not just leveled at this question)

Changing maps 'on-the-fly' might be helpful if you change your baffles 'on-the-fly' and since riding your bike backwards while working on a hot muffler, might be difficult, you can re-flash your ECU with the different calibration in the comfort of your garage when you change the baffles.

Doug

Hey Doug, thanks for the feedback.

I'm asking about multiple maps, not so much to achieve different MPGs, but rather for different configurations. Stock, Termis w/ baffles and Termis w/o. It's an assumption on baffles making a differences in fueling needs, naturally won't need it if the difference is minimal. But I do think there's a difference with or without the baffles.

Also, I don't have a garage, so, having to reconnect the Tuneboy unit to make changes when I make configuration changes will be a bit of a hassle. Granted, I won't do it very often, but it's nice to have that option. As opposed to pulling the baffles (allen key and puller tool), I would need to remove the seat, reconnect the Tuneboy (also to the battery), fire up the laptop etc.

[L3stat]

Originally Posted by PluckedDuc

2. DP ECU does NOT run lean. You should find after 500kms that the end caps on the Termis will start to get brown because the fuel mix is rich, especially at idle. Many people complain about the smell of exhaust fumes when they switch from stock (CAT) cans to the (non-CAT) slip-ons.

So why is there still low rpm stumble? Because the closed loop implementation used on the SF. Narrow band O2 sensors seem to bounce the fuel mix between lean & rich. Disable the sensors and use a static map and you end up with better results.

I recently got a Redline flashed ECU installed and the difference is considerable. (I'll be writing up my experience here soon).

In your case, I suggest getting your ECU flashed with O2s disabled (choose your preferred option) for the smooth ride the SF can provide. Then when you have to go for your inspection, change out the Termis for the stock cans & stock ECU. Even running the Stock cans on the reflashed ECU shouldn't harm the bike if it's once a year and a short run.

Come to think of it, I've noticed the stumbling more when I have the baffles in. Then again, I've only ridden the bike twice without baffles, and wasn't riding in the offending range. But you could be right. I've just removed the baffles but weather was bad so I could try it out. If it works well without baffles, then to hell with the neighbours! Yup, my end caps are brownish-black.

Just curious, since it's CL all the way, why does the stumble only happen at that particular rpm range? Does the DP ECU run OL >5200rpm?

Ok your last suggestion makes sense, just what to do with the O2 sensors. On a stock ECU + pipes setup, the lack of O2 sensors will throw a CEL, I'm not sure how well that will work with the emission test (might get a safe mode operation that fails emission tests). On the flashed ECU + stock pipes (assuming DP map), I'm a little worried it may run rich (and fail the emission test).

I guess if I go down this route, I'll have to save the stock ECU map, for OL operation with stock pipes when I go for the annual inspection. Then I can safely remove the O2 sensors and plug the bungs.