Yeah, that's a 'shoppped image alright IMO, notice the "RS" font in the background clipping through that person's hair, plus, when did Ducati ever unveil a new model at WDW ? plus, how come in this day and age "spy" photos are still so friggin' blurry ? :grin2:
Besides, i see no reason for a new SS to be made, i mean, you have the 1299/959, what would a new sportbike in their range accomplish ? And since it wouldn't be an air-cooled one (obviously)...It'd just cannibalize sales from the 1299/959...
I can't speak to the legitimacy of the photo or the release but my opinion does differ from yours on the need and outcome of a more comfortable and manageable sportbike; IMO the panigale has been a disaster for guys who want a sportbike for everyday use, and many of us, myself included, have backed away from Ducati after dipping our toes in the pani cesspool. A more relaxed Ducati sportbike with with better low end power would interest me very much. That does not take away from Panigale sales in any way because I wouldnt consider buying one but just might buy an SS if were done right.
I do believe that a new more practical but still extremely powerful SS would be welcome addition to the Ducati line. They could even make different versions like they do with the Multi - Sport version, touring version, commuter version. I think it could work.
I liked psyopper's idea in the other thread about this that he started -- a new SS based on the Scrambler. Especially now that the Monster and the HyperMotard have both gone watercooled 4V, a new SS like that would rock. Make two sizes -- 800 with the Scrambler engine, 1100 with the aircooled 2V from the last gen of Monster/HM.
Making false assumptions, and you re wrong.
Ducati unveiled the Scrambler at the last wdw 2 years ago, behind close doors, just like this one.
Ducati also announced last week they would show 2 bikes at this year wdw, one of the current lineup with a 90yo livery, and one brand new bike from the 2017 lineup would be shown, again behind close doors where pictures are forbidden...
And I know people there right now who saw it...
I think you're being too picky - there is a trellis frame (unlike the Panigale) and it's plenty visible even with the full fairing shown. Ducati is not going to return to the '90s in engine technology, frame design or styling; they're moving toward the future.
Would love a new SS. The tank/fairing looks strange, but I like Italian styling. They're pretty good, so I'll wait until I see it in person. Said the same thing about the Multi, and it's by far more prettier than the KTM/BMW.
The current state of monster 1200 motor would be great for this application it has tons of low end and great fueling it would be an awesome touring engine. It's liquid cooled 4v I like the motor a bunch in the monster. The panigale is a torture rack and the power delivery is definitely not touring friendly. Just my 2 cents.
Agree with you on the 1200 motor. I just sold a Monster 1200, partly due to its lack of available wind protection. I'd be very interested in this new SS, even if it had the 821 or 953 motor.
"There will be two models, the Supersport and the Supersport S. The main difference is that the S has Öhlins suspension front and rear, and a removable rear seat cowl."
"The dash is completely new with new functionality, and is ready for the Ducati multimedia system, the same as on Multistrada. The headlamp shape is completely new, the shape was inspired by Panigale but the headlamp has daytime running lights. The exhaust is new as well as the complete fairing."
“The start price will be between £11,000 and £12,500 (13-15,000 Euros) for the Supersport, for the S model I cannot say."
Well, I am also very interested in this bike, but I don't understand the 939 engine. By the time you take into account Euro 4 and detuning to make the engine smooth it should have about as much punch as a monster 896. The price for the S is going to be inspiring, but I don't see any inspiring performance at all, especially not for a bike with a windscreen. Maybe they will have two engine sizes. It could have even less power than the current crop of 600's, though I know the engine would be much more fun.
It's like they want to be able to keep the price high, but save on production cost with a mid-size engine to keep profit high.
Well, I'm already sure I'm going to get one. Chip it, pipe it, tune it and lower the front sprocket a tooth. It'll run.
I think I understand the decision to use the 937cc water-cooled, 4V engine in the new SS. Just like the original SS models, it's not all about the engine as it always is in supersports/superbikes - it's the holistic riding experience where no one system overshadows another - they all work in harmony so the rider can concentrate on the road, not on the machine. To me, that was the "special sauce" of the SS model. In that light, using the modern, mid-size 4V motor should suit the SS perfectly. Enough power, but not too much.
there is a market for the SS and I will buy a 2017 if it arrives
I still have my 97 ss and it is a favorite
A new SS should not be an ST IMO
, the Multistrada fills that roll
My 2012 multi has 35000 miles I can say it's a great sport tourer,
I might even do track day with just to find the limits
BUT
the SS fills a void that needs to be filled
I'll stick with the 1997 no emissions controls and spend 1% of the cost of a new one on bringing it a bit up to date. E.g. Stock headlights suck balls, now have HID, it's night and day.
I think I must be an outdated petrol head, I like it rough and raw.
Last car was a V6 Alpha Romeo. Pretty soon you won't be able to destroy the environment for fun, so I'll get my giggles while I can.
Red, I get it. Those old SS models were easy to ride and easy to work on, unlike today's more complex machines; however, time and technology really has moved on in the ensuing years since those bikes were made. Here's hoping Ducati listened to those in the company old enough to remember what made the prior SS model so special when they developed the new one.
I'm one of those who has thought that Ducati needed to continue the Supersport line. As much as I love the 2V and the PT versions, I don't need a new one to be a retro version of either. I don't need an air-cooled motor or a dry clutch (although I do love the sound of one). What I want is a relatively simple bike that can do most everything short of off-road. Let me digress for a moment and just say that IMO all this Adventure bike stuff is just BS. I'd guess that 90% of those bike have never seen "off road." Dirt driveways don't count. What a new Supersport doesn't need is ABS, ride mode, electronic suspension, etc. It should look like an Italian designed bike not a transformer. And, really, does the entry price have to be $15,000? Give me a bike I can commute on, hit the canyons with, throw some dry bags over and head to the left coast. That's a Supersport.
Bruce, we agree on "a relatively simple bike that can do most everything short of off-road". Whether we like it or not ABS will be there (it's the law) and ride modes and cruise can come along with ride-by-wire throttle control. I doubt we'll see electronic suspension, but Ohlins will be on the S model. Even though the photos are blurry, you can see the design is similar to the Panigale, which I think is appropriate. The pricing is speculative, but I'd expect about $13k for the base model and $15k for the uplevel S. Looks good so far to me!
dog, you're certainly entitled to your opinion on this issue, but 937cc and 113 HP (that's what it does in the Hyper) should be plenty for the SS application. The magic of the SS, based on my 15-year ownership experience, is that no one system overshadows another - the chassis, brakes and engine are all in perfect harmony. Contrast that to a Superbike, where it's all about the engine.
It is, however, supposed to fill the same riding niche the old one did -- realistic sportbike for riding on real roads -- and the old one did that really well, so comparisons are reasonable, and inevitable.
I seriously doubt we'll ever see an aircooled engine from Ducati over 800cc again.
An 1100cc a/c engine is just too hard to make meet air quality standards. They heat up and the pistons and valves deform. It would have to be de-tuned to make less power (low heat) to be stable. Why go to the trouble to make a slow 1100cc a/c bike when it's easier to make clean air AND more power with a 900cc w/c engine.
I was at a Honda yearly tech update back in the '90s. A change had been made to the piston design on the CBR600 engine. The tech rep said the new piston had the ring lands moved closer to the top of the piston. We asked if it was done to make the skirt shorter (and therefore lighter) for a higher rev ceiling. He said "No, the engineers found out too many unburned hydrocarbons were hiding over the edge of the piston crown down on top of the ring. It was done to clean up the exhaust..."
I recently checked out the new Thruxton R as the one bike that stirred my wallet over the past 10 years or so and two things stopped me dead in my tracks and it's a common factor in most modern bikes, one the bloody excessive weight and two the seat height... what's wrong with modern bike designers?
If the new SS is anywhere near the Thruxtons weight and seat height they'll lose a great many sales. Not every buyer is 6ft plus and 200 pounds.
I'll bet if they put a bigger engine in it that it would take away too many Panigale 1299 sales, and will probably already take away at least a small percentage of Pani959 sales. Come to think of it, I'll bet the whole reason for the 939 moniker is to not bruise the egos of some of those that want or have the Pani959, but know a 959SS would be a better bike for them.
I'm sure Ducati sat down and figured all this out. A modern mid-range bike, with a usable windscreen, with optional S version, and hard bags would speak to a very very broad range of consumers. It might not be the bike the performance oriented guys want, but it will sell a hell of a lot of bikes. New Scrambler guys will graduate to it, smaller displacement Monster people will graduate to it, and just anyone that wants a really fantastic bike will be interested. This still leaves BMW S1000R and Tuono 1100 for the fast guys to choose from.
I think Pani sales are already lagging. They need the Pani for racing - it was designed for that and its a great track and race bike. Track day guys and People with not much experience who want what they perceive to be the "hot" Ducati will still buy the pani. But those who understand the difference between a race bike and a performance street bike aren't buying the panigale and Ducati currently has nothing for them. I think Ducati is extremely wise to build this bike but they need to take care to make it comfortable while still being performance oriented and not perceived as a starter bike or a beginners bike. It still needs a beasty engine and premium suspension and brakes but with comfortable ergos and practical features like heated grips, cruise, and bags... BMW has this all figured out already, the others should catch up sometime.
IMO this is becoming more of a problem with all of the manufacturers as sport bikes become ever more race oriented. It used to be that we raced street bikes at the track - now days we ride race bikes on the street. And as they get better at racing they get worse for street use. The new R1 is a perfect example of going too far... The problem with sales of tamed down sport bikes like Yamaha's FZ6R is they always seem to put a lame engine and suspension on these bikes and market them as beginners bikes or girls bikes. Heck, nobody wants that - especially beginners! So where does that leave the experienced Yamaha customer who wants a sport bike for the street? Ducati had the same hole in their line-up and I hope this bike will fix that. But it needs to be as good as the Multistrada IMO.
Whether it's a great bike to ride or not, we won't know until we ride it. The concept of good balance, though, I agree is key. That's what made the old SS great. That's what makes the Monster 821 the bike I like best from the current lineup. The Monster 1200S was fun and cool, but it's the M821 that's actually on my shortlist of what I would buy if/when I need a new bike. Because balance.
Whether it sells well or not is much more vague. The SS wasn't a huge seller. The ST series, while great bikes, wasn't a good seller. It's tricky, because the motorcycling public sees Ducati as a sportbike company. They think Ducs are all fast, uncomfortable, expensive, and temperamental. People who are looking for a practical useful bike don't generally think of Ducati first (or at all). So it could end up being a great bike that a lot of people would love if they rode one, but which still doesn't sell very well.
I hope it's a great bike that sells well. We'll see.
Phil, you're right - we'll have to see how the new SS sells. Unlike during the '90s, however, Ducati has a much broader lineup today, what with Monsters, Multis, Scramblers, Diavels and Hypers and, of course, Panis. I'd wager many potential buyers will visit the showroom thinking they want a Pani, Multi or Monster and ride away on the new SS once they ride them all.
Seems to me that most people around here would want the new SS to be more SPORTtourer than SUPERsport, maybe that is also the way that Ducati wants it, which is okay, but why call it a Supersport then. It is also likely come next year that many prospect buyers will go to the showroom, look at the new SS and the old Pani and conclude that the Pani is actually the better supersport, hell for the price of the new SS they will be able to ride away on a like new Pani with a couple of thousand miles on the clock and have a Monster or Scrambler delivered for the change.
It's called a "SuperSport" from tradition, mainly. When it was introduced, it was a real supersport bike, and the name was entirely appropriate. That's what a full-on sportbike was like, before there were modern superbikes. The 851 was Ducati's first entry in the modern superbike genre, and it (as well as GSXRs and CBRs and all of that) completely changed what a real performance bike was, and left the Duc 900SS and the BMW R90S and all the old-school sportbikes in the dust. All of those became "more SPORTtourer than SUPERsport" in their nature (or went out of production).
So yes, the new SuperSport will not be intended to be a cutting-edge leading-performance sportbike. That's what the Panigale is for. The SuperSport will be intended to be what the later SuperSports became: a great bike to ride on real roads in real life -- a sportbike for grown-ups who want to have fun, but who no longer want to wrestle with a laser-focused racebike on public roads. We may still want a sportbike, but one with a bit of practicality, a bit of comfort, a bit of carrying capacity. The ability to reasonably carry a passenger at least now and then for a little while. Something a little more user-friendly, that will allow us to have fun on it even when we get actually old and creaky.
I testrode a Panigale 1199 a couple years back. It's an astounding, impressive bike. But it's totally useless in real life -- a scalpel in a world of butterknives. I would never buy one unless I was in a time and place and financial position to do a lot of trackdays. So yeah, as you say, many young and impetuous "prospect buyers will go to the showroom, look at the new SS and the old Pani and conclude that the Pani is actually the better supersport", but conversely (hopefully) many experienced and mature prospect buyers will go to the showroom, look at the new SS and the old Pani and conclude that they'll get more enjoyment from, and spend more actual time riding, the SS.
Well we all have different needs and desires in a bike. Frankly I've never understood why anyone would choose the 848 over the 1098 sbk or streetfighter, or the 821 over the 1200 monster when size and weight of all those bikes are so close that it's practically undetectable. If a bike cant loft the front in 3rd at will I'm not really interested. But that's just me. A good portion of the thrill of riding is insane power so I (almost) always go for bikes that have it. Personally, I think the "balance" thing mention in this thread earlier is BS, besides, it looks to have top line brakes and suspension on this new SS so balance with a 1200 Diavel/mts engine should be just fine... :wink2:
Amazing. For a bike we know nothing about beyond a blurry "spy" shot and some words in MCN, a couple of you guys sure do know lots about it. You obviously have the inside scoop... :laugh:
Wow, having owned 4 different Supersports over the years (two carbies and two fuelies), I'm quite intrigued by this news. Still, I have to remember that I ended up not getting another SS because the riding position is now too aggressive for me. I currently have the Streetfighter 1098S and it's such an amazing bike that suits most things I want to do. I find it very comfortable and with the new Rizoma bar that's on the way, it should make things even more comfy while still being an exciting rush of an experience.
That being said, I'm constantly looking for used SS bikes on craigslist and dreaming. It'll be very interesting to see what they come up with. Even my wife is constantly missing sitting on the back of that SS. Our relationship started on that bike. Because of the flat rear seat, she was somehow very comfortable on the SS.
@ChromeDinette people are very passionate, to the point of being fanatic about their Supersports so there is bound to be some "feelings" about this. @rz33v4 my info says 12500 Brit pounds for the base model, in South Africa there is a huge HUGE difference between US$ and GBP, $12500 is cheap, GBP12500 is very expensive (though Brexit made that a bit cheaper, but it's not going to last into mid next year.) One can already pic up a low km 899 Pani for around 7-8k GBP in ZA, also just speculating, that is about half the price of the SS S.
I also do not agree with anybody that any SS was any kind of tourer ever, yes it was suitable for some touring but in essence it was always a sportbike, and yes these days they are completely overshadowed by overpowered and overcomplicated and overdesigned superbikes, but that is sort-of the whole point of the Supersports, they are suppose to be your basic, useable, every day, for normal people, uncomplicated, with no frills designed, affordable superbikes.......
[MENTION=34324]... but that is sort-of the whole point of the Supersports, they are suppose to be your basic, useable, every day, for normal people, uncomplicated, with no frills designed, affordable sportbikes.......
Comparing the new SS price for older superbikes is really not fair because after the SS is on the market for a few years, it'll all be apples to apples.
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