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post #11 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 2006, 7:01 pm
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Hello everyone and thanks again for having me on the Ducati.MS forum I hope I can be of help.

Anyone who has been out to my school knows that myself and my coaching staff try to keep the riders involved and thinking by asking them how they see what they are doing. I didn't invent this, it's the Socratic style of schooling. The only difference in how we do it is no one is trying to "win" the argument.

So here we go on some of the questions asked:


Dragon lady

Taking into account all the times you "lucked out" and got something right, as you said in your post: Is there one aspect of riding you really feel you do understand--One thing that you can consistently repeat/get it right/feel confident about?

Ben 710

Take another look at your post and see if you can count up the number of subjects you covered in it. When I look at it I see eleven different subjects that you are considering/talking about. Now what I'd like you to do is pick one of them.

Motobee

I defer to Rob on this one, he has answered it as well as a broad question like that can be answered. If your quetion was, "how do I stop getting speeding tickets"? The simple answer would be slow down but that wouldn't handle it.
What might handle it is picking particular spots to exceed the speed limit and find the others where you shouldn't. It could be worked out and a plan made.

I don't want to seem like I'm unwilling to answer because I am willing. But think about this: A really well crafted question contains the answer if you have someone who will help you go that extra step to find it.

The more defined and refined the question is the more refined and defined can be the answer (or the next question that uncovers more of the problem or solution).

I'm trying to lay some ground rules here I guess but more than that I'd like you to think through what you want to know. I hope that seems fair. Once you can do it that way for yourself, you won't need me...

Keith
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post #12 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 2006, 10:08 pm
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Mr. Code, thank you again for taking the time to share and expound on some of your teachings with us, it's GREATLY appreciated by all.

I'm concerned primarily with my corner entry speed. Without going into great detail, suffice it to say that I KNOW I can enter into a given corner much faster than where I'm currently comfortable, it's both a matter of re-training myself to ignore my survival reactions as well as learning the limits of the bike/tire/corner themselves.

My question is thus: How do I safely increase my corner entry speed by using a methodical, quantifiable method (rather than simply being told 'try it faster next time') that can provide enough feedback for further evaluation and improvement?'

As a sidenote, I'm planning on taking one of your classes (Edit: I'm fairly sure this is the answer to my question) at the Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama this year and look forward to meeting you in person. Thanks again.

'04 999
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post #13 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2006, 6:25 am
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Dragon lady
Taking into account all the times you "lucked out" and got something right, as you said in your post: Is there one aspect of riding you really feel you do understand--One thing that you can consistently repeat/get it right/feel confident about?
my lines..
entrance repeat/right apex/confident exit
just something very simple....
post #14 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2006, 6:50 am
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Originally Posted by Mapless
Mr. Code, thank you again for taking the time to share and expound on some of your teachings with us, it's GREATLY appreciated by all.

I'm concerned primarily with my corner entry speed. Without going into great detail, suffice it to say that I KNOW I can enter into a given corner much faster than where I'm currently comfortable, it's both a matter of re-training myself to ignore my survival reactions as well as learning the limits of the bike/tire/corner themselves.

My question is thus: How do I safely increase my corner entry speed by using a methodical, quantifiable method (rather than simply being told 'try it faster next time') that can provide enough feedback for further evaluation and improvement?'

As a sidenote, I'm planning on taking one of your classes (Edit: I'm fairly sure this is the answer to my question) at the Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama this year and look forward to meeting you in person. Thanks again.
Thanks buddy, that kept me from rephrasing my question
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post #15 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2006, 12:10 pm
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Motobee

I defer to Rob on this one, he has answered it as well as a broad question like that can be answered.
Oooo, I'm flattered!

Forgive me also for failing in my moderatorly duties of properly welcoming Mr. Code to our humble little forum. I know I speak for all the forum officials when I say that we're honored to have you here and grateful that you're willing to take some time out from what must be a very busy schedule to share your experience and expertise with our membership.

Rob Allen

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2004 Suzuki DRZ125L
2005 Suzuki DR200 Dual Sport
2007 Yamaha TT-R 50 (for the munchkin)

Be strong enough to stand firm when you're right,
Be humble enough to admit when you're wrong,
And be wise enough to know the difference.
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post #16 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2006, 1:42 pm
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Hi Keith, a pleasure to have you here!

This is more of a theoretical question related to different chassis geometries (probably mostly the amount of trail). I know you have explored the physics of counter-steering but I've never seen this particular subject discussed elsewhere.

The following questions relate to steering a motorcycle through a tight chicane, specifically the transition from left lean to right lean. We know quicker steering motorcycles will require less counter-steering force to make the transition and that wider bars can reduce the force required (simply be providing more leverage) to steer a slower-steering motorcycle through the transition. I'm wondering two things:

1) Does a sharp counter-steering input use up some of the available traction. In other words, is it possible to countersteer so forcefully that traction is lost simply because the input was too quick?

2) If so, how does the trail of the front wheel affect this. In other words, would a slower steering motorcycle with more trail break traction easier in this situation?

This is something I've wondered about for many years. If sharp counter steering does use up some of the available traction, what is the best way to manage it? I understand the concept of riding smoothly but, as the pace picks up the transition in the middle of a tight chicane requires more force. Will a faster steering motorcycle always be able to make the transition more quickly for reasons of available traction or, given enough leverage on the bars, could a slower steering motorcycle make the transition just as quickly?

I mention trail because I suspect it may be one of the most important variables here but maybe rake, the weight of the wheels, gyroscopic forces of the engine, the wheelbase and/or other factors are too important not to discuss. And for clarity, I'm not so interested in which of these variables make the bike FEEL slower steering, rather which ones (if any) actually limit the speed of transition that is possible, assuming the rider is strong enough to countersteer as forcefully as necessary? If you have time and the inclination, I am also interested in how the orientation of the engine in the chassis might affect this, i.e., a BMW twin vs. a Ducati, especially as it relates to traction required in the middle of a chicane.

I hope these questions are not too theoretical to be of interest and that the subject matter is somewhat broad. If it's too broad feel free to discuss only the part(s) you feel are the most interesting or significant.

Mike Mullen
2002 STealTH Ducati ST4s (x2)
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post #17 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2006, 2:09 pm
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Thanks for chiming in for us Keith!

I'm still working on Flick of the Wrist.

749 Dark, 06 W/Remus titanuim 1/2 syst. Carbonfiber bits, Bitubo dampener,
Next will be the PCIII....then wheels!
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post #18 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2006, 3:57 pm
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Keith Code... welcome and what a pleasure to have you here! I have many questions, but am enjoying enough just reading.
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post #19 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2006, 1:11 am
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Keith, it's very nice to have you here. I don't have any questions right at this time. I did want to thank you. After years of riding, and a couple racing, I read your book, A twist of the wrist II. It opened my eyes,(scanning) and allowed me to examine and change my riding style 100%. After reading your book 30 or 40 times, I am usually able to figure out what I am doing wrong when I have trouble with a corner or section. Thank you for putting into words, not only the technical points of riding, but also the "feel" of it.
Matt

Yellow 1997 SS/CR, Arrow cans, jet kit, Superman lunch box and plaid thermos.


"Success flourishes only in perseverance --ceaseless, restless perseverance."
Manfred von Richthofen
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post #20 of 579 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2006, 1:45 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
1) Does a sharp counter-steering input use up some of the available traction. In other words, is it possible to countersteer so forcefully that traction is lost simply because the input was too quick?
Mike - I've been through 4 of Keith's schools now, and he actually addressed this particular point with us during Level 1 while teaching the value of quick-steering the bike at your turn-in point. Somebody asked this very thing. Keith asked, "So, have any of you ever known anybody to crash because they turned their motorcycle too quickly?" We all answered "No." Keith said, "Well, neither have I." Your other question on trail is an interesting one that I hope Keith answers.

Keith - Welcome! It's great to have you in our little cyber-world. I have learned a great deal from your superbike schools and books, and look forward to corresponding with you here. BTW, glad to see you've added Blackhawk again for 2007. See you there!

Badger

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