Subject Oriented, Image Oriented, Or...? - Ducati.ms

DUCeditor · Apr 25th, 2011, 9:32 am

One thing that I really enjoy about the Photo Forum here on Ducati.ms - indeed, that makes me prefer it to "pure" photography forums is the variety we see, not just in images but in approach.

Pure photo forums typically become equipment forums. Not in the "how can I use my equipment to get a better picture," but in the "which camera should I buy?" sense. Yes, we get some of that here too and there is nothing wrong with that. But equipment IMO should be the stepping off point towards photography (literally "writing with light") not the end all be all.

But even when one makes that jump there seem to be two very different goals and approaches: The first I would call "Subject Oriented" and the second "Image Oriented."

"Subject Oriented" places value on what is photographed, whereas "Image Oriented" is less concerned with what is photographed than with how the subject, whatever it is, is represented.

The difference is clearly seen when we consider an images of a woman.

Few of us would drool over Ms. Lisa in Leonardo D's famous portrait. Yet thousands line up to see that painting on exhibit (some, it is true, from mere curiosity) and among those are many who have contemplated that portrait for years.

A Playboy centerfold also draws viewers. But there it is the subject matter that draws the viewers attention. Drooling is only semi-optional.

Here we see a similar pattern. Bill Andersen's personal fascination with rare and wonderful eagles brings many of us back over and over again. Few of us get to see, much less photograph such a subject. Whale watch photos and the like draw us for a similar reason. So, on a personal basis, does an old photo of our family from many years past. It is not how the image is represented, but who or what is in the photograph.

But what about photos where the specific 'who' or 'what' matter less, but where it is the image itself that grabs us. That is so for the photographs that will last. The scenic vistas as captured by Ansel Adams or Eliot Porter, the glimpses into other lives as captured by W. Eugene Smith or Cartier Bresson.

These too loved their subjects, but the interest we find in their work goes far beyond the subject matter. The images take on a life of their own.

Few of us will be an Adams, a Porter, a Smith or a Bresson, but I love it when I get to see examples of friend's work when they have the same goal.

A love of the subject itself often gives us something worthwhile to share. But when we add an interesting way to capture and display it does yet more: I gives us art.

-don

SwiftFF5 · Apr 25th, 2011, 12:08 pm

Hi Don,

Hmmm that is an interesting distinction, and not one that I have consciously thought of before. However, in all my years of photography, there are only a couple of images that I am really proud of, and they would be "images" in the sense that you are using the word here. Two are portraits, but it doesn't really matter who the subject was, just the way that the photograph ended up. I may have to pull them out and see if I can find the negative, now that I'm thinking about them again.

Thanks for an interesting topic (again).

Bill_Anderson · Apr 25th, 2011, 12:33 pm

Sometimes I try to create an "image" shot with my bird photos. I may see something in the total composition of the photo which fascinates me or conveys a certain mood even though the shot of the bird itself is not reference book perfect.

DUCeditor · Apr 25th, 2011, 1:41 pm

One way to start to think "Image Oriented" is to create photographs that in a sense are without a classical subject, or that has a "subject" that is itself of so little interest that one must make the composition itself that thing that attracts the eye.

Here are several of my own that I think fall into that category: (Whether or not they have any merit you can decide for yourself.)

-don

Bill_Anderson · Apr 27th, 2011, 11:42 am

I'll try: subject oriented or image oriented?

DUCeditor · Apr 27th, 2011, 2:29 pm

Bill, I think that is a beautiful example of image orientation.

Rob998 · Apr 27th, 2011, 2:48 pm

Don, I think that first image is an almost perfect illustration of The Rule Of Thirds (maybe that's what you were thinking of when you took it?).

I love the second image, the figure in the distance is very evocative, actually almost alien, given the Mars like colouring of the landscape.

It's been a long time since I've picked up a camera to use for anything other than snapshots, and other things have had calls upon my finances rather than a decent DSLR. However, threads like these, and Bills photo-documentary of the beautiful eagles are inspiring me to take up the pastime again.

And I would probably put myself in the "Subject Orientated" school as whilst I admire a properly composed image, I lack the discipline to set up the shot.....

gragravar · Apr 27th, 2011, 9:28 pm

I really love your take on this. I certainly find most of my pics are subject oriented. most of the time I have the camera with me it is to capture a specific subject (event). even when I want to capture an image, it is usually because I see something and think that would make a great photo and go off to get the camera - but I am still just making a record of whatever I saw.

Looking through my flickr account there are precious few that I think make the jump to image oriented. those seem to have happened when I stopped caring or even thinking about conveying an event or a scene, and instead let my mind compose what I thought would be a cool image.

Here are a few that I think made that jump:

this one almost makes the transition but I think is still a little too subject focused:

Bill_Anderson · Apr 28th, 2011, 1:53 am

I find this topic very interesting and educational as I have no background in either photography or art. This may be because I have no talent in those areas as well. Attached are ten photos. I would appreciate opinions from those who do have backgrounds in photography and/or art as to whether they are subject or image oriented.

Photos #1-3 are the marsh where I take a lot of bird photos (#1 & 2 = winter, #3 = autumn). Photo #4 is a local park in winter. Photo #5 is cattails at the marsh shown in photos #1-3. I have tried to create images or moods rather than just more landscape photos of places I can visit almost every day.

Photos #6-10 are of birds. I have tried to use the bird as part of an image rather than to just document the presence of the species or an individual.

Bill_Anderson · Apr 28th, 2011, 3:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob998

It's been a long time since I've picked up a camera to use for anything other than snapshots, and other things have had calls upon my finances rather than a decent DSLR. However, threads like these, and Bills photo-documentary of the beautiful eagles are inspiring me to take up the pastime again.

Thanks for the compliment. You will find that after the initial investment in equipment, dSLR photography costs next to nothing as there is no film to purchase or develop.

Bird watching and bird photography must be an English tradition, as a book on bird photography that I bought when I first took up the hobby was written by a Brit. Many of the things the author said to do to improve your technique, such as constant practice and documentation of the camera settings & lighting conditions, are now so much easier with digital photography.